Resilience and Faith: Natalie Ashby's Journey Through Grief and Ministry

What happens when a seasoned pastor, mother of four, and grandmother to twelve, reflects on her journey of faith, ministry, and resilience? Join us as Natalie Ashby opens up about her life, from growing up as a pastor's kid to navigating the unique challenges of raising her own children in a pastoral family.

In this episode, we delve into the real struggles of leadership and the weighty expectations placed on women in ministry. Natalie shares profound insights on maintaining the delicate balance between transparency and privacy, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in leadership. She sheds light on the often unspoken pressures of meeting societal and congregational expectations and offers valuable advice on seeing yourself through God's eyes.

Natalie also addresses critical topics like the unpredictable nature of grief, common misconceptions about its timeline, and the vital role of resilience and support in overcoming life’s toughest challenges. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation filled with hope, practical wisdom, and spiritual encouragement.

To contact Natalie Ashby and to explore her books, visit her website here. 

Chapters

• 0:16 Pastoral Life and Family Dynamics
• 10:46 Struggles of Leadership and Expectations
• 16:40 Navigating Grief and Personal Boundaries
• 30:09 Navigating Through the Process of Grief
• 35:33 Navigating Grief and Empowering Women
• 42:26 Books, Writing, and Ministry Work
• 47:14 Healing, Deliverance, and Prophetic Gifts
• 54:09 Words of Encouragement and Hope

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm your host, kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wildhearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations and thrive with confidence, courage and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwingscoachingnet and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome Natalie Ashby to the show. I'm so excited to have her here today. She's actually the mother of a sweet friend of mine named Sarah, and I can't wait to not only for you guys to get to know her better, but for me as well. I also want to preface a little bit that I'm actually outside in nature, so you might hear some nature sounding noises behind me and also potentially airplane noises, because, you never know, living near an airport. So anyways, natalie, thank you again for being here. Would you just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Well, I am the mother of four children four adult children, and I have 12 grandchildren and two on the way, so we have a very large, robust family. I am a widow. My husband died a little more than five years ago, and so that's thrown me into a different kind of life. I direct a global school of supernatural ministry where we raise up ministry leaders. I real life discipleship, where we train people to disciple others.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Um, I head up a healing breakthrough where we have it's our, it's our version of healing rooms um that we do once a month and, um, I helped the worship pastor lead worship and I promised my pastor that since we were no longer pastoring, I would be the very best member he could have. So that's kind of where I am right now in life.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Wow, so previously you were a pastor.

Speaker 2: 2:37

I was my husband and I started full-time pastoring when Sarah was a baby, and so we had three children when we went into full-time pastoring when Sarah was a baby, and so we had three children when we went into full-time pastoring. And then we had another one in the mix of all of that and we stopped pastoring after about, I'm guessing, 20 some years. We pastored well over 20 years, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Wow, wow. So what, like what, led you guys down that road? We'd love to hear kind of the background. To come to that place.

Speaker 2: 3:12

This is interesting because I was raised in a pastor's family. There were a bunch of us, boatload of kids, and the way my father raised us is if you had any talent, it would be used in the church. My father raised us is if you had any talent, it would be used in the church, and it wasn't like we were forced to be in the church. It was more like you had the privilege of serving in the church and his perspective was very kind and gentle, but it was also very holy, in that we truly reverence the house of God and enjoyed being part of that ministry, and so that's how I got involved in worship and being active in ministry.

Speaker 2: 3:56

My husband was also raised in a pastor's home, but he went back on the Lord for a time, and so when he came back to the Lord, he went to the church where his father used to pastor, which happened to be where my father was pastoring at the time, and so funny part is that the parsonage we were living in he had lived in when he was 12 years old. So it was just a bunch of fun little tidbits of information that you know. When we started out we weren't in ministry together, but the Lord called us into pastoral ministry just a few years into our marriage. So we both were raised in it, knew what to expect the good, the bad and the ugly but we knew that it was a very strong call on our lives. And so we two PKs, raised four PKs and for those who don't know, pks are preacher's kids and we are a unique lot all on our own.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Well, what was it like growing up as a pastor's kid? I know there's, you know I've heard stories from people all over the place, Like there's some, you know, like you said, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Speaker 2: 5:09

Yeah, it's like living in a glass house Everyone sees what you're doing and wants to comment on what you're doing. When we lived in Ohio, life was one way, but when we moved to North Carolina, you know we run a very conservative Pentecostal denomination and North Carolina seemed to be much more rigid about things. So one of the jokes I used to say is that you know, we didn't know some things were sin until we moved to North Carolina. And it's not really that they were sin, it was just more like you didn't do that, you just don't do that. And so one of the things my father asked all of us daughters I'm the seventh girl out of 12 children, there were seven girls and five boys and so he asked the girls. He said it would really help our ministry in North Carolina if you did not wear slacks, because this denomination didn't believe in that in that area. And so because we loved and respected our father so much, we very easily, you know, did whatever he asked because of who he was.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Um, it was.

Speaker 2: 6:29

It was a very challenging time, not because of, not because of our love for God and the ministry, but more about the things that people want to put on you, and that can be very, very challenging for um, you think how hard it is to raise children and then you know to become teenagers and then everybody watching everything that you're doing and just people are not always very kind to preacher's kids, and that was just the challenging part, and my dad would always remind us he's like just remember who you're serving, and you're serving the Lord.

Speaker 2: 7:00

You're not serving the people, you're serving the people unto the Lord, but it's like you're not trying to please them. You're here to the people, you're serving the people unto the Lord, but it's like you're not trying to please them. You're here to please the Father and so if we can find favor with him, the people will either have to come with us or they don't. But you know that was our perspective in ministry. That's how I was raised, and so my husband and I tried to be very intentional in how we raised our children that they would not have to succumb to some of the really negative side of people wanting to pick apart their lives. And it's not. I'm not being, I'm trying really hard not to be negative, but I'm saying it is a reality coming up in a pastoral home.

Speaker 1: 7:48

Well, you kind of touched a little bit on, you know, like pleasing God over pleasing people, and I know that that can definitely be something that people struggle with in general is, you know, being a people pleaser. So has that been something that you've had to like come up against at all because of some of these dynamics, or do you feel like that was just something that, um, you never really had to like deal with in essence, like on a soul level?

Speaker 2: 8:21

Um, for me I still have challenges. Um, you know, if someone disagrees with me, I I constantly check my own personal motivations and how I feel about people and, um, I don't easily connect with people because it's hard to trust people and that's that's difficult all by itself when you're in ministry because, um, it's hard to have those relationships when you're not sure what their motivations are. And so I still find it challenging to be in a small group, in just a social atmosphere. If I can speak in front of several hundred people and be okay, but if you want me to connect one-on-one, it's so hard for me to do because I don't always trust the people that I'm talking to. And so and a lot of that came out of just being in that pastoral role where you know the husband is usually usually they love the guy, but it's harder for the, for the wife and the children, because you know you're not supposed to speak against the pastor, but it's almost like the family is is fair prey and it's challenging to understand that.

Speaker 2: 9:47

It's the people who are hurting that have a hard time accepting you for who you are.

Speaker 2: 9:54

You know they want to put their labels or their expectations on you and you have to learn how to be confident enough in God and who you are in God that you can step outside of that and say, no, that's not my role, that's not the call on my life. This is the call on my life and I've actually ministered to some pastor's wives, where you know, to break those expectations off of them to where they actually have freedom to walk in their calling and not someone else's expectations. It's challenging. You don't just drop that when you step outside of the role. And not wanting to inflict that on your children, and that's why I was laughing about you know, I'm thankful that my children are serving in ministry now. Do you know how much of a miracle it is that you can raise four preacher's kids and they all love Jesus and want to serve the Lord and serve in their churches and are raising their children that way? That is a miracle and I don't take that lightly because I know the struggles.

Speaker 1: 11:03

Yes, Wow, Well, I just I so appreciate your vulnerability because I know that you know there's probably going to be somebody out there who's listening to this that you know is, you know, potentially the wife of a pastor and is a pastor, or you know just those expectations that come on us when we're in those roles that maybe are, you know, more of a leadership role or a helper role, where, you know, even like myself, as a life coach, we can even put our own self imposed expectations on ourselves, thinking, oh my gosh, well, I can't, you know, how can I be doing this position if my stuff isn't all in order? Right, that quite a bit too.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Yeah, I, if I, I am not a perfect individual and I'm sure I can give you plenty of witnesses that could attest to that. But my pastor's wife sometimes has to say to me hey, you're still human and you don't have to be perfect like that every time. You don't have to present yourself as flawless every single time, and that's an important thing to say that. You know, if somebody tells me I did something wrong, I fight. I have to fight to stay on top, otherwise they could, like, take me out.

Speaker 2: 12:28

You know what I'm saying Because you know I'm supposed to be setting the example. I'm supposed to be raising up ministry leaders, and if you can't keep your act together, you know how are you going to tell somebody else how to do something, or show them how to be victorious when you're not able to get out of the bed. You know what I'm saying, like show them how to be victorious when you're not able to get out of the bed. You know what I'm saying, like those are constant struggles where I have to be reminded. God didn't call me to perfection here on this earth. He called me to be mature and complete in him, and that's two totally different versions of perfection.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Yes, well, can you say that again? I think somebody needs to hear that can you say that again?

Speaker 2: 13:08

I think somebody needs to hear that.

Speaker 1: 13:09

Um, he did not call us to perfection, but he called us to maturity and completeness in him, which is two versions of perfection yeah, and I think I mean how many in in the role that you're in, how many have you found that really struggle in this area to have victory?

Speaker 2: 13:31

I work in a deliverance ministry and that is where you find the most challenging things for women. Even when they're Christians and they know that their sin is under the blood, as they say, they still deal with shame and guilt of things that happened 30 years ago. You know, because and the comparison, comparison is a really, really big problem for women. Comparison is a really, really big problem for women because we look at everybody else and we see how well they're doing. They look at their marriages or they look at their families and they see how it looks so perfect. But what people don't understand is that we're looking at the Instagram picture of their family. We don't see what's on the background for a lot of people that they have the same struggles, and all we're seeing is the pretty stuff that they want us to see.

Speaker 2: 14:29

And getting to that place of vulnerability where we're able to assess ourselves and see what God sees, as opposed to what everyone else wants to shoot arrows at and I actually address this in the very first book that I wrote, called Mirrors my Perception, his Reflection because the way we see ourselves is determined so much of how we live our lives, so we don't always live according to what truth is. Many times, we live according to our perception and, because of our perception, we're not seeing truth for what, what truth is. Many times, we live according to our perception and, because of our perception, we're not seeing truth for what it really is. And so if I'm constantly intimidated by other people, I'm always going to live in fear of rejection, right, and so I'm going to, I'm not going to be authentic. I'm going to give you a facade that makes sure that I'm going to be received, where you never actually get to see the true person because they're intimidated all the time.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Right, wow, so what, like, what does that look like tangibly so, for you know being vulnerable and, like both of us, you know we're both walking out different paths, but yet we're on the same path in many ways. Right, so, as somebody who maybe has a little bit more trepidation and trusting, to like be in like a smaller group rather than share from, like a stage of 100 people listening, like, what does that look like for you to step into that? Um, you know, I, I'm even thinking about you know they say on, you know social media, like be vulnerable, it's like, but at what point do you like, how do you discern?

Speaker 2: 16:21

what you share. Does that make sense? Where I'm going with this? That not everybody earns the opportunity to hear all of my vulnerability, okay, so I'm not going to just throw everything out there to everybody Now.

Speaker 2: 16:40

A lot of my story is in the second book that I wrote, because I was going through like an identity crisis and I was working all of that out and so I had called my old daughter. I have two daughters, so I called my old daughter, anna, and I would talk about stuff and she said Mom, just write that down and just hold on to that for a little while and just let that process. I said, ok, and then I would call her again later and she said, okay, mom, just write that down. And just, and after a little while, she said, okay, you've got your book started, now just keep going. And I'm like, really, this is what this is what we're going to do. And she's like, yep, you're on the right path, just keep going for it. And I was like, wow, because in the writing it helped me understand not only who I was, but where I was going and that God hadn't left me and men of where they were in their walk.

Speaker 2: 17:33

When different situations happen, difficult circumstances that challenge who they are at the core.

Speaker 2: 17:51

But then there are parts, there are things in my life that no one will ever know Like.

Speaker 2: 17:57

I can tell you how hard it is to be a caregiver and I can tell you how much it challenges your position as wife and mother and ministry leader. But I can't tell you the whys behind, why it challenges the wife. I can't tell you all of the secret things because I don't want to bring any kind of reproach on anybody, but there are some really personal details that I can't share with anybody. You understand what I'm saying, but I can give you the scope big enough that you, you can have an understanding that you've actually been there and you can, you can, you can get out of that place right. And it's almost like if you tell too many of your details, people will say, oh well, then that's not me. It's kind of like when paul talked about his thorn in the flesh. If god had told us exactly what his thorn in the flesh was, we would not relate to paul because we say, oh well, I don't have that, so that must be okay.

Speaker 2: 19:00

We would lose that relatability right, and so we don't want to give but so many details. Part of it is is protecting our own selves, our emotions, our self-worth, because there are people in this world that will take that information and use it against you. Let's just be honest, it's true. I've been there, I understand, but we want to give people enough information that they can relate to us and know that you thought you were just grieving the death, but you were grieving two years ago when your marriage changed from husband and wife to patient and caregiver. You grieved that process.

Speaker 2: 19:43

When I took my husband out of the pulpit because he didn't understand how bad off it was, you know, we grieved the part of no longer being in pastoral ministry. That was a grieving process and people just associate grief with death and loss but they don't realize sometimes that they're grieving other things before they even get to the ultimate grief of losing somebody. And so, understanding that we all have those vulnerabilities, we all need to be transparent enough to let people relate to us. But we don't have to give all of our secrets to the just throw ourselves out there to the wolves either.

Speaker 1: 20:27

Hope that answered the question, kristen so good, natalie, that is so good. Um, that is a huge even key for me. Um, I tend to be an open book. Not, I've learned to pull pull the pages back more than I have, you know, over over the years, right, but I used to just be like an open book and, yeah, I've those wolves. They sure are ready to to tear you apart, exactly. But there are people. There are people that you can have in your life that maybe have more access to like I've. I've sometimes called it like the birthing room, like, yeah, let's say you're, you know, starting your book and I don't know about your process. But you know, when I'm coaching people, sometimes God gives you an idea, something to start working on. That is like that feels very beyond, beyond you, right? Yes, you don't want to share the world until right. Would you agree with me on that?

Speaker 2: 21:32

Yeah, and I think that, yeah, I feel like you know how Jesus had his 12 disciples, but then he had, like the inner circle, like there were three that he really he was really super close to and they were included in some of the things that he did that not everybody else got to see. So he had the three and then he had the 12, and then there was the 120, the 70, and the 120, and then, you know, just got into the thousands, right, so the 120. And then, you know, just got into the thousands, right. So the thousands didn't get to hear the heart of God all the time, right, but the three got to experience some things and then he would even say don't tell anybody about that right now.

Speaker 2: 22:18

This is just for us right now, and it's not that everybody else isn't allowed. It's more like this is a personal us right now, and it's not that everybody else isn't isn't allowed. It's more like this is a personal, intimate time and we just don't want it stomped on. You know, not everybody's going to have understanding here, and so for me personally, you know, I talk to my kids, but I have to be careful how much I talk to my kids, because they don't need to carry what I carry right, I'm their mother, they don't need to carry me, I'm their mom. But I also have some close friends. You know I have a ministry partner that I deal with a lot, that he and I have, you know, very good conversations, but he doesn't know everything. My pastor's wife probably has more information than anybody else at this point because of this the emotional side of a woman, right, so that would make more sense. But like outside of those, they don't. They don't really get to hear all of the stuff.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, oh, I just love your heart. You are so wise and I know it's come through, walking through many things. You mentioned grief. I have many. You know my mom, my dad, passed away seven years ago and you know, walking alongside my own mother, who lost her husband. You know they've been together since high school and I had just graduated from Christian Coach Institute and I didn't know I'd be inadvertently grief coaching, um, and it was a really, really hard season to walk through yes and it's been five years for you.

Speaker 1: 23:59

I don't know if you're open to just even sharing a little bit more on grief. I really haven't had many on here who have gone, you know, to that, to that um pathway. I guess we could say there's a beautiful monarch butterfly flying by as I'm saying this. Uh, it's very sweet. Uh, would you be open just to even sharing a little bit more of your um your grief journey and and what that's looked like over these past five years and how the lord has carried you? Um, I can't imagine um that journey. You know, I've been with my husband for 28 years and I'm sure you were together a long time as well.

Speaker 2: 24:42

So are you sharing a little bit? Yeah, I'm good with that. I've you know, now that I've written about it and processed a lot and walked some other women through it, you know I can do this now. Um, actually, um, before my husband passed, um, I lost my father and my father and I were extremely close, like super, super close, and when my father died we kind of lost my mom at the same time, because my mom was put into a memory care facility at the same time and even though my mother is still living, she doesn't know us. So it's it's almost like we lost them both at the same time and even though my mother is still living, she doesn't know us. So it's it's almost like we lost them both at the same time.

Speaker 2: 25:28

And I grieved horribly for my father, like it was. It was very unhealthy and part of the reason was because my husband had had brain tumor. We were, you know, we were doing all of the chemo. The life was difficult, it was challenging and my father was the one who would call and say, hey, how are you doing? I'd say, and I give him the rundown on my husband and he say I get it, but I want to know how you're doing. You know, and he and I had that kind of relationship. So when he died it it almost took the life out of me because he was, he was like my lifeline and so. But my husband was able to, to speak at his funeral, to preach the funeral, but like as soon as we left the funeral we were headed back to Duke University, duke Medical Center to start radiation because my husband's cancer had come back. So it was all of these emotions at the same time. And to give you just a little bit of understanding of where we were, we'd already been through the prostate cancer thing with him and we'd gotten past that.

Speaker 2: 26:45

But then when his brain tumor started, my youngest son had just started his senior year of high school and I was trying to finish up my master's degree and I was traveling for work. I mean, I would travel all over the United States for work, but then in the middle of all of this stuff, trying to take care of doctor's appointments and hospital visits, because when he went into the hospital it would be like anywhere from five to 12 days. We never knew. So we couldn't like plan ahead. We just knew we were going and we didn't know how long we'd be there, so I would drive up. For three hours I stayed with him in the hospital, but then, if he had to stay over on Sunday, I would drive back home, preach, lead, worship, preach, and then go back to the hospital and stay with him. Meanwhile I'm working and doing all the things.

Speaker 2: 27:38

And so I got to a place where I was struggling really, really, really, really badly and I was taking advantage of some Christian counseling that I could do online and I was trying so hard to be strong for the kids, trying to be strong for the husband, but I was really close to like tapping out myself and no one knew that. No one really knew that. Because you can't tell people that, because it's unholy to make people think that you decided that this is just not worth it. Ok, so you don't tell people that, because that's unholy, that's not Christian to feel that way about things.

Speaker 2: 28:20

And so I had to bring my husband to a place of stepping outside of the ministry, and so in all of this, I was grieving the loss of my marriage because I was no longer the wife, I was now the caregiver and everything revolved around his illness. We were grieving the ministry because we no longer had that, and he went through this season where he didn't understand all of the reasons why, and so he was just angry, and so it was like everything was like falling around us, and so I just grieved. It was like grieving everything, like everything was gone. And so we stepped into this new church, um, and all I would do is sit on the pew and weep. Just when I'd go inside, I would just sit and weep and I didn't have any job to do while I was there. I changed jobs so I could work from home to take care of my husband and just all of the things.

Speaker 2: 29:21

Just everything was so heavy around me, and when my husband passed in 2019, I asked God specifically. I was like I'm the youngest girl in my family and my mother is still alive. Why do I have to be the first one to experience this? And I wasn't angry at God, but I didn't have any understanding of why I had to be the first one to experience this. And I wasn't angry at God, but I didn't have any understanding of why I had to be the first one. I said I've not seen anybody walk like this. I've not had to, you know, be around while somebody else is going through this. Help me understand the why. And he very clearly said because you're going to have to show others how to do this. And I didn't want the job and I didn't want the job, I didn't want the job.

Speaker 2: 30:09

But what I didn't know is that my brother, who was 49 years old, would have a massive heart attack and die and I would have to walk alongside his wife to get through this. And this happened within months of my husband dying. Then my other sister lost her husband. Within two years. She lost her husband and I had to walk her through this process and I wasn't angry, but it hurt so badly because every time somebody in my family would die, it would reopen all of the wounds again, and having to deal with that fresh every single time was so hard because you think well, my god, it's been two years. What's wrong with you? Can't you get your act together? But it's like reopening that every single time and you don't understand the triggers that will come up and remind you of something and it feels like you, you're sucked back into that. Even now, there will be things that happen that I don't understand. You know it's been five years. Why should this bother me now?

Speaker 2: 31:20

But that's the the unknown part of grief. You never truly get over grief. You learn how to you learn how to manage your life with it, because if you've truly loved, you're going to truly grieve and you can't, you can't love without having that other part. It's like the other extreme. You love, love so much, you're going to grieve and it's going to hurt and you're going to be in pain. But you also know that there's a great hope and a joy, because the you know the word says that precious is the death of the saints. Well, I know where my husband is. I know where my father is. I know where my brother is. I know where my husband is. I know where my father is. I know where my brother is. I know where my sister you know, I know where they are. They're not lost.

Speaker 2: 32:07

We didn't lose them but they're in a place where they're having the time of their life and I'm down here saying, well, you know what, I sure could have used you this week. You know when my son is struggling or when my daughter is struggling, and they could really use their father. You know, it sure would have been nice to have you around. But we move past that and we learn that it's just part of the process. It's an ugly process and I'm not ever going to tell anybody that it's beautiful because it stinks. But you learn how to walk through it and you keep pushing yourself.

Speaker 2: 32:45

I have to push really, really, really hard. I still have a hard time going to bed at a normal time because I it seems like when I go to bed alone, it just reeks out. You are alone, you are by yourself, and so I stay up as late as I can. So I don't have to face that. But I do it, and it's still a struggle, but I still do it. You know what I'm saying. You just learn how to walk through it. That's all you can do, and make sure that you have people around. You have people around me that don't allow me to get too low. They will pull me out and you have to have good community to help you sometimes.

Speaker 1: 33:28

Gosh. Well, I mean looking back, you know, in that beginning stage of you know loss, where we I don't know about you, sometimes we can not well, you know, kind of going back to what we were talking about in the beginning of of not opening up to people to kind of let them into what you're going through, and especially in this area of grief, I think there can be this lie that, oh, you should be over it by now. And if you're not, then X, y, z and goodness, during those times, I mean especially, you have so much going on. You're working and traveling and you know so many variables, you know with family and you lost your father and just so many things that came at once. Looking back now, like what, what would you have told yourself during that time?

Speaker 2: 34:27

there. There are no particular expectations to grief and there is no right way to do it other than trying to stay healthy, um, and when I say healthy, I mean like not going down that path of just despair, which is a really easy path to go down, but just understanding that you know you do need people in your life. You do need people in your life because grief is, it's, unpredictable. There's no structure to it. And I mean I got hit really hard, kristen, after my husband died, um and I know it was the enemy that was speaking to me, but I I it was like I was being accused of you didn't treat him well enough. It's your fault. He died, um, you didn't do all you should have done. You should have never taken him out of the pulpit. He was.

Speaker 2: 35:35

You know all of these accusations that came at me and I would try so hard to get past them. But then I found out that I had to find somebody I could trust and just talk through that enough so they could help me find the truth. Here's the truth. Here's the truth of the matter. You did everything you could and, um, he knew that you loved him. You know what I'm saying. How do you, how do you get to those places?

Speaker 2: 36:06

You know, and um, and that's why, that's why grief is so complicated, because the enemy wants to take advantage of those vulnerabilities. You know, we feel like we armor up every morning. You know, with Ephesians 6, you know we put on all of the armor, but sometimes we get hit with the fiery darts that can be poisonous, or the fiery darts that penetrate the body and something happens on the inside of us and we think, just because we remove the arrow, that all of the healing is going to take place now. But sometimes we have to go in and bring healing to places that are unseen by those on the outside and if we don't do that, there's a constant infestation of infection and things that can just, you know. You know when you're dealing with someone like that, because they're very reactive, very just, their joy is gone, just their joy is gone. They're very demanding or manipulative, or just a lot of emotions come out that aren't really justified for a situation and it's because they're so wounded and the enemy takes advantage of those times where grief is a valid response and someone dies. But the enemy will come in and take advantage of those places of vulnerability and sneak in some other things.

Speaker 2: 37:38

So like, if I'm lonely, he wants to bring despair. Well, despair is not allowed. I can be lonely, but I'm not going to give in to despair. Right, and I may not experience the joy all the time time, but that doesn't mean I have to have disappointment. I don't need disappointment. I can I cannot have joy every second, but now you're not going to give me disappointment on top of that. That's not. That's not allowed. And understanding what's valid and what's not valid, that we walk in in life and the things that he wants to put on top of what our natural responses are, because it's a place of vulnerability. We have to really be on guard for that kind of thing and I don't think I understood that in the very beginning that, um, the enemy just wants to tack on more to keep us in a place where we can't move forward.

Speaker 1: 38:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:32

So you know where you are today. Obviously you're ministering to many and you've walked through. I always say you have to walk through, you have to keep going, you have to keep going to get to breakthrough, right, right. So as you've walked this out, you know this is hope unlocked. I'm all about keys. If you were to share, like one key with the listeners in relation to just just your journey, maybe the last five years, what, what would you say to the listener? Like, what, what key would you give them?

Speaker 2: 39:12

well, I actually learned this from my old daughter, um, and then you know, my kids have always kept me pretty well grounded. But, um, I learned this, uh, I think Dr Caroline Leaf wrote about it as well, but it's called brain detoxing. And it's the thing where the enemy wants to put these lies into your mind that either you're not good enough, you're not fit enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not talented enough, you're not enough of anything right, you're not doing a good job here, you're really messing up over here those lies that come to it to accuse us and deceive us. Um, if you write those down, write it down whatever the lie is, and then find in God's word or ask God what he has to say about it, and write that down. And so when that lie comes back, you immediately take that thought captive and you say this is not true, here is what is true. And you repeat that over your life and it becomes, if you do that on the regular basis, like every time that lie comes up, no, the truth is this.

Speaker 2: 40:33

It detoxes your brain and you begin to think in truth, as opposed to what the enemy wants to put on you, and knowing that you have more authority over your life. You have more control, you have more ability to walk in the light as opposed to being held back by the darkness. Knowing that you have more in you, you are empowered to walk in power and strength and victory, and not just reacting to, is one of the reasons why I wrote the last book, power of a Warrior Woman, because women these days, you know, in the past few years they've been silenced, they've been stepped on, they can't even define what a woman is, which has gone to beyond ridiculousness. And now they're saying that it's time for the women to rise back up. And so that is the power of a warrior woman.

Speaker 2: 41:31

You know who you are. You are a giant slayer, you are victorious, and knowing that you walk by truth and not by feelings, and not by the emotions and not what the enemy throws at you. But you actually have the ability to stand up in truth and understand your calling, understand your identity in Christ, understand that you carry. You already have in you what you need to accomplish what God's dreams are for you, and that's essential. Just establishing what the truth is over your life.

Speaker 1: 42:06

Well, I cannot wait to get a copy of your book. I am all about warrior women, but I have a Facebook group called Women of Wonder Warriors Arise.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Yeah, I thought that was so funny because the name of the ministry I have is called Awaken to Wonder. And then the book was Power of a Warrior Woman and Sarah's like look this mom. I was like wow, that's just too much.

Speaker 1: 42:31

I think we could be good friends, right? So when did your book?

Speaker 2: 42:38

release um. It just came out um early august early august, so yeah, it's brand new.

Speaker 1: 42:48

Oh my gosh, happy book birthday. I will make sure. So you have two books. You said mirror, I have three.

Speaker 2: 42:53

I have three. Power of a Warrior Woman Mirrors my Perception, his Reflection and the Story I'll Tell. The Story.

Speaker 1: 43:02

I'll Tell Wow, and how long ago did you write these books?

Speaker 2: 43:08

Mirrors was a long time ago, but I just had it re-released because I put like the activation stuff in it and like words from the Lord. So this one has been out since 2006 with a brand new re-release, and then the story I'll tell 2021. Oh, wow, okay. Um. 2, 1, 8, 21. Oh, wow, okay. And I'm working on another one now as I'm teaching, so hopefully that will come out in the next year, maybe less you and nate, we have like a writing gift, or is this really stretching for you?

Speaker 2: 43:48

I didn't know. I had a writing gift. I wrote the first one as a message and it turned out becoming a book. And then I became a communications writer for an insurance company, but it certainly wasn't this kind of writing. But I don't know, it's just what God has opened up in this season. So here we are.

Speaker 1: 44:13

So amazing. I'm making my journey back in the house because it's getting a little louder outside. This is, this is the real and raw aspect of the Hope Unlocked podcast. Aspect of the hope unlocked podcast. I love that, you know, I, I, I don't know something that you might have to go check back. Um, I did an interview with a gal who released her first book in her eighties. Can you believe that? What Isn't that amazing? Like it's never, I just say like it's never too late. And, um, I love, I just love that you're out there sharing these words. And what is the story I'll tell about?

Speaker 2: 44:59

Uh, the story I'll tell is actually the book that I wrote after my husband passed, and it's not just about grief. It does have. It does have part of the grief story in there. But it also talks about identity. When situations happen and you know, it feels like you've lost your identity, which is, you know, kind of what happens when you're a caregiver. But it also talks about purity, transition, joy, gratitude. It covers a myriad of things because it was what I was walking through in those first two years after my husband died.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Well, thank you for releasing just what you've released in these books. I can only imagine how many people it's blessed.

Speaker 2: 45:47

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Well, and can you just share? I know we're going to wrap up in a little bit, but I wanted to hear a little bit more about, um, the ministry work that you're doing, like healing, deliverance, um, could you just tell us like a little bit more about that? Maybe some people maybe haven't heard of that before. When I was okay, um, well, I was saved in. Okay, well, I was saved in, they didn't talk about the church that I was saved in back in 20, 2003. It wasn't until 2019, after I'd left, that I started learning more about healing ministry and deliverance and things. Right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:26

So some people may not know about it.

Speaker 2: 46:30

Well, so in my ministry life, like way back with my father, um, he certainly was um active in healing and um that I mean I was raised in this element, um, but whenever um I came into, I got into this thing where I felt like the overall religion thing was like there's got to be more than what I'm seeing right now. Um and so, um, that's how God led me into um being the director of a ministry school. And part of what they do, um, you know, they talk about identity, they talk about intimacy, intimacy, but they also help people activate their spiritual giftings, and part of that is healing, part of that is deliverance, part of that is, you know, words of prophecy, words of knowledge, you know just the spiritual gifts that everyone has accessible to them. And so, in that, we developed a healing session. I mean, in our church we always have time for healing. You know, we pray for people all the time. I pray for people in a restaurant, in a store, it doesn't matter. People need prayer, they need prayer, we pray for them. But with the healing breakthrough, we set aside a night to where people come in. They tell us what their need is. We have a team that goes to them and prays over them, prays with them. I have a whole Excel spreadsheet full of people who have been healed in those sessions. You know, I know the book that I'm writing right now is called Faith Glory to Glory, living the Supernatural Life, and before each teaching session, before each chapter, I'm sharing a testimony of a healing or a miracle that I experienced with my father or with my family. Um, and so out of 12 chapters, you know, you know I'm going to have at least 12, if not more, stories of healings and miracles. So I know that it's real.

Speaker 2: 48:51

As far as the deliverance ministry, the one that we do at our church, is very structured and you know I don't just do it, I train others to do this as well but we meet with someone for like we give, we set aside time for like four hours and we just go through this process of walking them through forgiveness, walking them through breaking soul ties where, you know, people have had an unhealthy sexual history and they don't realize the things that they carry from these people and they don't understand why their marriage isn't working out right or why they, why they're so reactive to certain things that you know doesn't really apply to their family right now, and they don't realize what they picked up from other people spiritually. And so we walk them through that process, we teach them how to walk in freedom, and so that's a really, really big thing thing. And I want to tell you this um, in one of my classes, um, for the supernatural school, the school of supernatural ministry um, we were activating the students on giving prophetic words and so, um, as the teacher I wasn't, you know, I was just watching what everybody else was doing, walking through the process with them, and one of the guys in the class says you don't have one, but I wrote one down for you last night and I was like, okay, fine, let me see it. And this is what he said. And he did not know me very well at the time, so he didn't know my background. But it says you're going to minister to women, but you're not going to like it, but you'll do it anyway because you want to see them free. And what he didn't know is how hard it had been being a pastor's wife and all of the difficulties that you know.

Speaker 2: 50:37

I just don't connect. Well, right, but he spoke that and out of that came this whole deliverance thing ministering to women, doing the awakened to wonder. I have an incredible night of worship in December where my family comes in, my kids, they all come in, they lead worship, they participate with me in ministry. We do a phenomenal just. We have an amazing time and it's healing, deliverance. People just set free. And it's an amazing time, but it's all real. If you read the bible, don't ever think that's not for today, because that's not true. That's a lie from the enemy to say you don't get to participate in what god is doing, and what god has available is available to all of us all the time well, thank you for leading the charge.

Speaker 1: 51:30

You are a warrior yourself, thank you. Well, how can people like can people that don't live in the area um be involved with what you're doing? Like do you have live streams? Do you have um?

Speaker 2: 51:47

um, so my awakened wonder is um, on a thursday night once a month and I do zoom that one for people who are not in the area, um, and so if they want to be a part of that, they can certainly connect with me on my website and I can certainly get them set up for that. We do live stream the night of worship, for sure.

Speaker 1: 52:07

That's a crazy time that we just have a blast enjoying ourselves well, and I'll I'll link in the show notes um, okay, anything you want to share that you know somehow people can get involved in, or if they are in the area, because where are you located? Again, newport news, virginia news okay, um, we're not far from virginia beach're not far from Virginia beach.

Speaker 2: 52:30

I'm not far from Williamsburg. I'm kind of in between the two.

Speaker 1: 52:34

Well, if you're in the area, I encourage you to get in touch with Natalie. I'm sure that there's so much goodness that she can bring you in that area, and I just want to say thank you for sharing your story here. You know, obviously, like, like we said earlier, we, we don't share all of it, but, um, I believe what you've shared today is going to break chains. Um, so many does you. You know, as we, we talked a little bit before we got started. Um, the Lord called me to do this for the one and, as we've been talking, um, is there anything else that you'd want to say to the one, and would you be open to praying us out?

Speaker 2: 53:13

Certainly, I just say learn who you are in Christ and accept who you are.

Speaker 2: 53:21

He's created you to be who you are and don't try to take on someone else's identity. So, father, I thank you, father, just for a beautiful opportunity to speak with Kristen and God, just to share the highlights of who you have been in my life. And, father, I accept the responsibility of just spreading this gospel of hope and light, healing and freedom to any that wants to receive that. God. I thank you, father, that the ones who will hear this podcast are the ones who need to hear it, and I thank you, god, for someone like Kristen who is willing to put herself in the spotlight in order to draw others to you. Father, so God would just say to those women who are listening hear that he knows you, he knows your name, he sees you, he knows where your challenges are. But he also says to you you are lovely and there is no flaw in you, so receive the word over your life that you are called and you are chosen in the name of Jesus, amen.

Speaker 1: 54:35

Well, natalie, thank you for being a brave voice. Who's setting others free? I am going to close with the Hope Unlocked anchoring verse, which is may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope, and that's Romans 15, 13. So again, we will have all of links, books, book links, so you can grab her books, and I just look forward to those of you who get a chance to listen in. I'll be back with another episode next week.