Called to Lead: When God Sees What You Don’t with Joe'l Povolni

In this episode of Hope Unlocked, Kristin Kurtz speaks with Joe'l Povolni about stepping out in faith, navigating tough seasons, and finding strength through God's presence. Joe'l shares her personal journey, including challenges like moving cross-country, stepping into leadership, and learning to trust God in the midst of adversity. She emphasizes the importance of shifting your mindset, relying on God's promises, and allowing Him to transform your heart. Her story encourages listeners to embrace the hard seasons, knowing that God is with them every step of the way. If you're facing challenges today, remember: God is faithful, and there are treasures to be discovered in the pressing. Listen in for powerful insights on courage, faith, and finding purpose in the tough moments.

Joe'l's contact info:

Instagram: @joellepovolni 

Facebook: FaithCaffeine 

Website: joelpovolni.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introduction
• 0:49 Meet Your Host: Kristen Kurtz
• 3:30 The Power of Connection through Social Media
• 7:43 Curating Your Online Environment for Positivity
• 18:13 The Importance of Tough Skin in Life and Faith
• 23:45 Transformative Stories: Learning to Pray for Your Enemies
• 32:14 Digging Deep: Finding Treasures in Difficult Seasons
• 39:30 The Role of Fear and Faith in Following God
• 45:22 Closing Thoughts and Final Prayer

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm your host, kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wildhearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations and thrive with confidence, courage and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwingscoachingnet and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me. Welcome Joelle Pavolni to the show. I'm very excited to have her here today. We actually met through social media and through a conversation. I was just like hey, do you want to share your story on Hope Unlocked? And I'm very excited for her to share more about herself and her journey, and I know she's definitely going to infuse some hope and joy to the audience today. So would you be open to sharing more about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:22

Absolutely, kristen. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It's an honor and I'm just so thankful for God's grace in our lives and how he works and even how he connected us through social media. And you're right, social media can be it can be a wild place, but God is working, even on social media, so that's so fun.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Absolutely it's. It's interesting because I know like obviously we don't want to spend all our time there. Right, it's good to be in public and with real people, but there are some really good real people around the world that we can find on social media, right good real people around the world that we can find on social media, right, absolutely, and, and they can be such an encouragement.

Speaker 2: 2:13

You know what you look for, you find, and so I feel like when I am on social media, I am always looking for other like minded people that I think, okay, they are, you know, they're doing something to make a difference in the world. I want to, you know, have that infused in my life, and so that's kind of my goal with social media is either infuse good or find people who are and and connect with them. So I love that.

Speaker 1: 2:39

It's interesting, I feel like I'm stopped here for a moment on social media because there's a lot of people that are like I'm just leaving. It's like, well, what's causing you to leave? There's a beauty in social media where we can snooze people, we can unfriend. If needed, you can block people. Even I like to curate my feed to be positive and uplifting, and it's kind of like you wouldn't go into a restaurant that serves really bad food unless you didn't know. Right, if you continue to like, focus and keep company with just a lot of toxic out there, it's going to infect you, right, would you say.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think it is so wise to be careful of the voices that you're listening to and just know the season that you're in and what affects you. I think sometimes we forget. You know, especially, I tend to feel things kind of deeply and if I'm starting to feel uncomfortable or just have a sense of, okay, I was on social media for a few minutes and there was no encouragement, there was no, I'm thinking okay, I need to change who I'm following, who I'm listening to, because there really is a lot of good in the world. There's still a lot of good on social media and if those of us who have a heart to encourage others, if we all leave because of the bad, then what is there left? You know, and I do truly believe, just like being in our community and being a light for the Lord. You know, online we need to be a light as well and just try to show others that, my goodness, there are things worth living for and there are still people in the world who want to make a difference.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Yes, well, like, what does that look like for you being on social media? Then, like, have I know? You said you're, as I can tell, like, with myself being a feeler, just being, you know, it's easy to get affected, like seeing the temperature out there. Sometimes I actually purposely go out and check the temperature, even the comments of people, and I know this sounds silly, but, um, because I am one who's like, I'm a researcher, I love to dig deep. Um, I also like to see what the temperature is out on their streets and it's very surprising at times to just see the polarizing opinions out there. But, like, what does that look like for you, you know, being able to encourage others and be the light on social media?

Speaker 2: 5:22

I mean, I think for me. You know, I, whenever I go on social media, I'm trying and I will first of all say, if anybody checks my social media, I have not been as active in the last couple of years merely just because of how busy my life has been. But I always, when I get on and if I'm posting something, I'm just like, okay, I want this, I want to encourage somebody else, I want to be able to make a difference and hopefully, walking away from my time on social media myself, to be encouraged and others. But what I recognized when I was on social media a lot and when I was using my platforms to really challenge people in their faith and to, just, you know, help people to realize that there is hope and there is always more to it than what you're seeing initially kind of beneath the surface.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Whenever I would get, you know, I don't know tough comments or people that didn't appreciate it, I would kind of think to myself, okay, I am making a difference. Then, because if you never stir up any trouble and I'm not saying that that's our intent I mean, when I go on social media, I don't personally, I don't feel like arguing on social media gets people anywhere. But if you're speaking truth and you're trying to encourage people and lift people up and that stirs people up, it lets me know that I'm probably doing the right thing, because my heart is always to serve people and lift people higher, and the enemy is not going to appreciate that Not at all. Trust me.

Speaker 2: 7:01

So back when I used to do quite a few Facebook lives and things like that and we get on and do like some short teachings and things, there were times that people would get on and just say rude things and try to throw you off course and everything, and I think that's just part of it. You sort of have to get a tough skin with social media but honestly, we all have to get tough skin in life in general or, or you know, we'll crumble.

Speaker 1: 7:27

So what does that look like for you to? You know, get tough skin and what does that, what does that actually mean? Somebody might be like what does tough skin mean? I'm just you never know.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yeah, no, for me I am not, am not well, so it's kind of contra. This is gonna kind of what I'm gonna say is gonna contradict itself. But my father used to say that I would argue with a fence post. But, um, there is a very much a part of me who does not like to fight unless I really need to. So I can, even though in through years of leadership and things like that I have I step out, I'm, you know, have to lead on Sundays, I work in the local church, all of that. But at my heart or in my heart, and I'm really an introvert and so I'm sort of like one who measures my energy. It's like, okay, is this fight worth my time and effort?

Speaker 1: 8:28

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 8:29

Yes, but God has a way.

Speaker 2: 8:33

No matter what your personality type is, no matter if you're an extrovert or an introvert, no matter what your Enneagram number is, no matter what any of those things are, god is trying to, I believe, build his people up strong in him.

Speaker 2: 8:48

And so that means that when the you know attacks from the enemy come, when just people are people and they say rude things or they don't have the best intentions towards you, we've got to get strong or we will crumble, we'll succumb to. You know that emotional roller coaster that we've all jumped on, where we just let life take us for this ride and we're up and down with all the up and downs, and I definitely lived that way for a period of my life, and I'm not um, I there's still comes and goes some now, but I've learned that I can be more steadfast and not jump on that roller coaster, that I do have a choice. And so for me, being tough skin is more reminding myself of God's promises and not feel like you know okay everything is swirling around me and I'm dying and the sky's falling and just you know.

Speaker 2: 9:40

Falling apart because life will try to rip you apart. I mean life, human nature, the enemy. Falling apart because life will try to rip you apart, I mean why? Human nature, the enemy, all of the things I mean. I remember a specific time, um, my husband and I we were in Colorado. Um, we felt like God had called us to start a church there and this was, oh goodness, like 1012 years ago and we had. Anyway, we just, obviously, if you're going to do anything for the kingdom, you're going to face obstacles, you're going to have fiery darts from the enemy and all of that.

Speaker 2: 10:19

And there was there is one particular person who I felt like every week was always sort of coming against me and I remember the Lord just challenging me because I would get so caught up in my feelings and my emotions.

Speaker 2: 10:35

And the Lord just challenging me and saying I need you to read the love chapter in Corinthians and I need you to pour out love as if you are receiving it from this person and not look at what they're giving you and talk about learning how to get tough skin.

Speaker 2: 10:54

I mean, that does not feel good. It doesn't feel good to be like quote unquote sort of like slapped in the face weekly and God telling you pour out love. So now I look back on that period of time and I'm actually so thankful for that experience because it taught me as I feel like most of the experiences do with the Lord, but they come at you from different angles to really trust the Lord and to not operate out of my own feelings and to know that he always has something greater for us and we might be praying for the situation and whether he ever changes the person or not we have no control over, but we do have control over on allowing him to change us. And I became stronger through going through that experience and I'm so thankful for it because I don't necessarily like to engage in those kinds of fights, but God was teaching me how to fight in new ways.

Speaker 1: 11:58

Fighting with love. Wow, yes. So what? Like? I'm curious like how did that situation turn out with that person?

Speaker 2: 12:06

Um, that person did not change, but I changed. Wow, wow, that's you know, and and it just really taught me a lot. It taught me that, as we're praying for people, um, first of all, in the word, it tells us to pray for our enemies. And that's hard for people to swallow initially, especially if you have somebody who has caused trauma in your life or it's much deeper than just somebody who is constantly going out of their way. It feels like to offend you or to say you know, I don't like you or don't you know, whatever that is. I know there are people who have been hurt in tremendous ways, but the thing that I've realized about praying for your enemies is number one if it does change them, I mean, that would be the ultimate, because why would we want anybody to go on hurting people in the world? But if it changes us and we become a transformed person because of it and we learn how to trust God with the results of whatever he's doing in their life, because we can't control that but if we just keep our hearts open to what God's trying to do in us, as hard as it is and I mean, my goodness, when I first, you know, you hear the concept of praying for your enemies. But then I heard a preacher talk about that. This is more than just saying like this short little prayer that you're sort of begrudgingly saying like Lord bless them. I don't know if I really really feel that way, but Lord bless them, you know, to praying for your enemy in a way that you're you in the, in a way that you would want your own family to be prayed for, and realizing you know, I heard somebody else say and I want to say maybe this was Bob Goff that had said this, but I was.

Speaker 2: 13:54

But I heard somebody else talk about that when we pray for people that are, I don't know, going astray, or maybe that they're not, you know, whatever it is, it feels like an enemy to us.

Speaker 2: 14:07

Maybe it, maybe it doesn't feel like an enemy, maybe it's just people that rub us the wrong way. I don't know what that looks like in our lives, but when we take time to pray for them, it's like God saying thank you for praying for my children because they're my son or daughter, just like you are and you know it are. I guess it stirs something within me, even though I don't necessarily like it in the moment, but I think, man, how much grace have I needed on this walk with the Lord? You know, before I grew up in church, but I didn't always walk in complete faith because I didn't know God like I know him now and I still have so much to grow, but I'm just like I need so much grace. And so now it's changed my mindset to think why wouldn't I pray for them? Because, man, how much do I still need God every day?

Speaker 1: 14:59

I. This is a huge key for somebody today. Truly, I can imagine like I do this for the one right. So I'm imagining the one that's just like how do I implement this? How do I actually do this? Like, how do I get into that posture to be even able to do this?

Speaker 2: 15:20

You know, all I would know to say is, every time another jab comes and I know, for me usually the initial feeling is anger because, you know, anger is sort of that top emotion and then the hurts underneath and I definitely have to get raw with the Lord because I'm not like, oh, someone was nasty and now I feel like blessing them.

Speaker 1: 15:44

Right, that's what I was like. What does it tangibly look like for you to walk through this?

Speaker 2: 15:49

It tangibly looks like.

Speaker 2: 15:51

You know, sitting down with the Lord and saying this made me angry and I feel pretty hateful towards this person right now and I don't like this.

Speaker 2: 15:59

I don't like what they're doing and sometimes just being honest with the Lord and saying, Lord, I don't like what they're doing and sometimes just being honest with the Lord and saying, Lord, you know, because sometimes people hurt us and they're being promoted in ways around us and that can be difficult and really getting raw with the Lord and saying, Lord, I am going to go back to your promises and the character of who you are, because I can't trust what I'm seeing. I can't trust what I'm feeling and what I want to do is not what I should do and just asking the Lord to give me the right heart posture. And I think the underlining reason I can even do that is because God blesses people who are hungry and humble for Him. If you're hungry, you have a desire for him to change you, because you know that you can't develop into who he's bringing you to be if you can't be molded and shaped through the difficult seasons.

Speaker 1: 16:58

And.

Speaker 2: 16:59

I just got this thing in me that's risen up over the years that, like I want everything the Lord has for me on this side of heaven. I already know great things are going to be in eternity, but all that he has for me on this side of heaven, I don't want to miss it. So why would I allow this person? And there's people you know they're different, they're going to be people in different seasons of our life. There are going to rub us the wrong way in different, in different seasons of our life that are going to rub us the wrong way in different times and we're going to have to learn. You know, are their actions worth me missing out on what God has for me? Or am I going to get really raw and open with the Lord and tell him about the hurt, tell him about the pain and then ask him to shift my heart and to have a heart like his heart is all I would know to say. I mean, it's not a magical thing, it's a God thing and it's spending time with the Lord and, I think, just having the underlying, knowing in your spirit that if I do the right thing before the Lord and this is in your, you know. This is at home. This is doing the right thing when home. This is doing the right thing when nobody knows. You're doing the right thing. And if I'm in the secret place with the Lord and I am asking him to shift me and to help me to forgive, help me know what that looks like to walk out forgiveness. Help me to learn to pray for my enemy, even when I want to shoot my own fiery darts, let alone the enemy.

Speaker 2: 18:29

And just getting a vision, I think in our minds that man, if I want to go where God wants to take me, this circumstance, this person is not worth me not getting where God has for me to go. I mean, it's a point you know God does want to reward his children and you know, I think sometimes Christians want to stay away from like, oh well, I'm just getting. You know we got to do this for the right reason. Sometimes you do things because you know that God's going to reward you and you know that hopefully he's going to transform you along the way, but doing it because you know there's a reward. I, and you know that hopefully he's going to transform you along the way, but doing it because you know there's a reward. I don't think that's a bad thing. We teach children to obey their parents and we reward them or their consequences.

Speaker 1: 19:15

When it's like that, saying like obedience equals success, have you heard that before? Yes, like this is a absolute obedience. Uh, step right, because we and I've I've had to do this too in my journey and it's almost like I I'm just being real here. It's kind of like you know the little kid when they're like stomping, you're like really, yes, and then the heart shift happens when you pray, when you bless others, when you step away from all the hurt, all the feelings, all of the like. But why, me Right, did you experience that, those moments?

Speaker 2: 19:58

I mean absolutely, and throwing fence before the Lord is a real thing. I mean David did it. I, yes, I have. I think that David did it.

Speaker 1: 20:06

I, yes, I have. That's where Psalms came out of, I believe. What did you say? That's where Psalms came out of. He's like this sucks, but God, like I always think of that. I'm like okay, he did it, I can do it too.

Speaker 2: 20:17

Absolutely. And sometimes yeah, I mean sometimes I just want to scream and say, lord, this is not fair. And you know, because you know we have the tendency in our humanness to look at others who appear from the outside that they're just floating along in life. We're thinking, lord, can I just have a piece of that please? But I don't know. I think that being raw and open with the Lord and throwing your fit with him and then knowing that he still loves you, I think that is one of the most beautiful things is to realize that man, even in our darkest moments I mean many years ago, my husband and I went through a very, very dark season where it was 2008, the crash happened and my husband's a graphic designer and most of his clientele were churches and non-profits, and so when the crash happened and finances got tight, you know, most churches and non-profits would stop paying for extra things like design.

Speaker 2: 21:24

We had to close, my husband's company, lay off employees and we ended up walking through bankruptcy. And it was the darkest time of my life that I had walked through up to that time. And you talk about throwing a fit and just, and not only that, just feeling shame and, like you, were walking through something that a Christian shouldn't walk through. And walking through that season, god taught me a couple of things, but one of the things that he taught me was there is no dark place on this earth that he will not go with his sons and daughters. Say that again there's no dark place that God will not go with his sons and daughters, no matter how it makes you feel, no matter how dark it is. I realized in that season, you know, there were times where I mean frankly, my, it was my husband. We had to close down the business. He we lived in St Louis, missouri at the time, and he began looking for work. The only job that opened up was in Loveland, colorado, and at another Christian publishing house, and so he actually moved. But we couldn't sell our house immediately. It was up for sale but because of the crash, there were foreclosures in our neighborhood. So every month we were lowering the price of our house to match the foreclosure prices, because you couldn't sell a house. It took us 13 months to sell our home. So my husband was physically in Colorado. I was physically in St Louis for over a year with two small children.

Speaker 2: 23:08

I had to close things down for his business, go to the lawyer's office by myself, do a lot of these things that just felt really dark and shameful. But I will tell you one particular there's really two, actually there's really a lot, but I'll just focus in on this one particular experience where I was walking into the lawyer's office and I just felt so much shame and just like, okay, the Lord's done with me, that's what it felt like and just felt so much darkness. And you know that the enemy, he doesn't play fair. When you're already down, he just comes along and kicks you in the darkness. And so I definitely felt that way. But when I walked into the lawyer's office, something shifted. They heard our story and they took a look at the facts and they looked at me and said you're the reason people like you. What you went through is why bankruptcy was created and they were not believers. But all of a sudden I just felt God's peace, just come into the room and just envelop me. And I walked out of that lawyer's office just with so much peace. I walked in, felt intimidation, felt shame, felt alone, just felt like I was in the middle of the darkness and walked out with so much peace. And yet nothing had shifted, except for God's presence, came in and shifted my perspective.

Speaker 2: 24:43

And I think often in life, no matter what we're facing, we just need to get in the presence of God. And yeah, I was in the lawyer's office. Believe it or not, the presence of God can show up anywhere. And I think sometimes we forget that. Yeah, we forget that. You know God doesn't not go in certain places, but you know God doesn't not go in certain places. He sees his children, no matter where we are, and he can show up in beautiful and amazing ways.

Speaker 2: 25:15

And when I walked out of that office, I didn't know how I was even going to pay the lawyer fees. But within a short period of time, my husband had called me and he had been out to lunch that day in Colorado and someone had felt to give him a check and it was for the exact amount we needed. And so, in the middle of that darkness, god placed it on someone's heart to pay the lawyer fees. They didn't know it was for that, they didn't even know what we were walking through.

Speaker 2: 25:45

But I look back at that and I, you know the enemy puts all the shame on you and you know he just he'll come in. I mean, we, we feel it enough ourselves, and then he just adds to it. And I just think how gracious the Lord was to me in that moment and did so many miracles. Did it deliver us from the overall situation, but did so many miracles in the darkness that it just tattooed deep within my heart, like this faith in the Lord, that, okay, he goes anywhere with me and no matter how devastating it is, no matter what I have to face, am I going to be okay? Because if God is with me, who can be against me? And I think you know whether we're talking about facing enemies or whether we're talking about just a circumstance that feels like an overarching enemy in our life.

Speaker 2: 26:41

God's presence changes the atmosphere of the rooms we walk in and changes the atmosphere of our hearts, which changes our perspective and how we show up in the world.

Speaker 2: 26:51

And I am so thankful for that, because I cannot imagine walking through some of the things we've walked through without being able to come and be able to share with you or share with somebody in the grocery store.

Speaker 2: 27:02

I remember thinking I am never telling anybody that we've walked through this because, even though I saw God show up, there was still an element of, you know, shame. It's not like you're going to go around and announce when you're going through a very difficult circumstance like that, and I thought I don't want to talk about this, I don't want to tell people about this, and it would amaze me how I would run into somebody somewhere and they would start sharing with me the difficult financial circumstance they were in, or something that was along those lines, and how God would prompt me to encourage them. And now I can share about it without bawling, and so I'm super thankful for that. But I love how God's presence he is with us, and so you know what I look at it this way If God is asking me to pray for my enemy, um I I don't want to chance losing the power of his spirit being activated in my life, because I'm stubborn, and I'm stubborn y'all.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Are you the oldest? I am yes. Okay, me too.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Yeah, and God often has to bombard me, you know, with um, with his truth and cause. I don't always obey him when he just tells me to. So I don't know, Kristen, if you can relate to that.

Speaker 1: 28:29

I mean I've gotten quicker. Well, I used to try to. You know, like, like you said, talking about arguing, you know, arguing with offense posts. Like my parents said, I should have been a lawyer when I was growing up, because I just I want to know the deeper meaning behind things and a lot of times what the Lord calls us to do doesn't make sense, right?

Speaker 2: 28:52

Absolutely. So, that's what I'll just say it's not.

Speaker 1: 28:56

it's that analytical side that confronts like I'm a very free spirited girl now, like I've become so free spirited, but the analytical side will try to come in and try to make sense of everything. I'll have to be like, oh well, this isn't making sense. Can you, can you make sense of this? I don't want to do this unless you give me all of it.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Right, I and I hear you completely and, like you said, I've gotten quicker, but there are still moments where I definitely wrestle with the Lord a little bit.

Speaker 2: 29:27

But I do, I am faster to obey because I know when he's saying it there's got to be something he has for me that is going to shift things in some way. Whether it's just doing heart surgery on me, I mean I don't like it. But I remember reading I think it was like TJ Jakes or somebody had written about the fact that a knife is used in surgery and a knife is also used if someone gets stabbed, but the intent behind it is when you have surgery, the intent is to heal Behind a stabbing or something like that, the intent is to kill and it's the intent that matters. And so I know when God is asking me to do things, that I mean usually when he asked me to do something. If he's having to ask me, usually it's something I don't initially want to do, if we're just honest about it, because if he was asking me, then that means I'm not doing it, I would already be doing it if I thought I should you know and he has to ask you, is that?

Speaker 1: 30:33

is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2: 30:35

yes, I mean you know most with us. Yeah, most of us don't just always want to jump to do their hard right thing you know we're looking for. I don't know, at least I am, I'll speak for myself. I'm usually looking for the quickest, easiest route that'll be the least amount of pain.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's our flesh, I mean that's, I think that's honestly like what we've been. Um, just that's what the world wants. Yes, right, it's like the Instapot, you know, like, give me it fast, give me it easy, give me it painless, right.

Speaker 2: 31:14

Yes, absolutely, and yeah, the quickest version of it.

Speaker 1: 31:19

you know and.

Speaker 2: 31:23

God works through process, as much as I don't always like that.

Speaker 1: 31:29

And process takes time, no-transcript like biggest faith leap that you've taken, that you've had to kind of wrestled out with the lure and then you were like, okay, I'm doing this thing um, so I will.

Speaker 2: 31:50

My husband and I together have had plenty of leaps of faith, but for me personally, um, we left Colorado about three years after living there and we ended up in Madison, mississippi. Um, was definitely something that the Lord organized. We couldn't have organized it and just getting here was a huge step of faith. But once we got here, um, we were coming underneath a pastor and his wife and going to help in ministry. But I looked at my husband and I said this is your thing. This was a huge transition. I mean, we had lived in St Louis, missouri, for 14 years, then Colorado for three, and now we're making another big move to Mississippi. And I didn't know anything about the South and my husband said he'd never live in the South. So you can see how God's sense of humor is is just so interesting. And so we end up in the South and then we're, you know, stepping in to helping out at a church and leadership in various ways, and I just literally said I want to be low key, I want to stay in the background, I want to help my kids with this transition. And, yeah, god didn't listen to me. My husband listened, but God didn't. So within a, very literally, within like two months, the pastor's wife was asking me to lead a small group to encourage moms. And I thought to myself like I don't want to do this. But I just didn't feel like I had anything to give in that season and I just thought I just don't want to do this. But for some reason I decided to say yes. I think it was more of God prompting me and so I said yes.

Speaker 2: 33:48

Now small groups are so common. But I mean, this was I don't know. I just thought, god, I have nothing to give, I don't want to lead other people and I just started. I had to go depend upon him. I literally had to go seek him every week and say Lord, what do you want me to share with these women? And what I had no clue about was was this was just a tiny, tiny step of what he was asking me to step into.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Because, just like two months after that, the pastor's wife asked me if I would start leading a women's class on a Sunday morning, and in the facility that we were in, the women's class took place in a coffee shop or like a cafe area at the church that was open, really, to anybody, so it wasn't even like a private space for women. And so she was asking me to trade off teaching the women that would come for that and really anybody who was walking by. And I didn't want to. I thought, okay, the small group was enough. Lord, like I already have stepped into that, what are you doing? And I had no desire, like I was enjoying attending this women's class and soaking in from the wisdom of the women who were pouring into us and I'm thinking I am perfectly fine right where I'm at.

Speaker 2: 35:12

But so my pastor's wife at that time she had a way with the Lord, because when she came to ask you to do something, what that really meant was she had already sought the Lord. Because when she came to ask you to do something, what that really meant was she had already sought the Lord and she had already been praying and the Lord had already dropped your name into her heart. And so when she came and asked, it was already certain that God was at work and she had the mindset of you know what, if this person says no, they're missing out on the blessing that the Lord has for them. And if they say yes, then you know God has been working on them and we're going to see what he does. And so she never let the outcome bother her and she loved asking people to step up and to serve and to step into things they were uncomfortable doing. That never fazed her. And so when she came and asked me my literal thoughts, well, she was looking me in the eye, was over my dead body, but as I left, um, I felt, like you know, she, she, she's very smart, like you know she's very smart. So she did not ask me again for the next couple of weeks and she just was quiet as she prayed and I really started feeling like God began to tap me on the shoulder and say Joelle, if you say no to her, you're saying no to me, and it brings tears to, you know, swell up of emotion inside of me because I knew that that was a point in my life where I could either step up and allow God to work through me and, yeah, you know, someone can look at this and say, okay, that's just teaching a women's class, joelle. Like that's not that big of a deal In my life.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Like I didn't want to be up in front leading people. I didn't desire to speak in front of people, made it through the speech class in college, but I'm not a great memorizer. And so you have the people around you who are great at memorizing facts or memorizing scripture, and I'm thinking, ok, I'll know the gist of a scripture, but I might know it came out of James, but I may not remember it was James 4a, and so I don't want to be that person up in front that everybody is looking at. And you start looking at your own insecurities. And then, and I and I, just I didn't know what I didn't know. But when I heard God's voice say you're going to, if you say no, you're saying no to me I knew that I had a choice, and this choice was bigger than whether I was going to teach a women's class or not.

Speaker 2: 37:45

And so, as scared as I was, when my pastor's wife came back to me and of course she did I was hoping she'd forgotten. But she came back and I said but she came back and I said yes, and I will never forget the first Sunday that I taught my. You know, I was holding a microphone. My hand was shaking which is way more obvious when you're holding a microphone and I started sharing.

Speaker 2: 38:18

And then, all of a sudden, I was sharing the scripture where the Lord is talking to Moses and he says I am that I am, and there was something about that scripture that I just felt the anointing, the presence of God come over me and in my heart and mind I just said, lord, I'll do what you asked me to do if you show up like this every time. I'll do what you asked me to do if you show up like this every time. And so that changed me in so many ways, because over the next seven years that we were under this pastor and his wife before they retired, again and again they asked me to step up and do things that I didn't want to do in my flesh, and again and again I just felt like God prompting me. If you say no, you're saying no to me, and I want to say to to some people who are out there. You know there are times where people are asking you to do things and God may not tell you that and no is a real answer. So say no.

Speaker 1: 39:15

Yes, that's a whole other topic.

Speaker 2: 39:18

Yes. Don't say yes because you're feeling pressured or you know because you feel like, oh, this is the right thing to do, so to speak, you know, to impress people or whatever that looks like, because I'm going to tell you all right now that if I would have done that, I think I would have got up and failed. But it is because the Lord was, you know, it was like him and I worked out this deal Okay, I'll show up. If you show up, he's like I'm going to show up and I'm like, okay, I'll show up. I think when you have a heart, even if you're scared out of your mind. You know, several years later because that was like in 2013 and 2015, my pastor asked me to speak on Mother's Day. My pastor asked me to speak on Mother's Day and I thought he meant to the women's group or the women's class that I had at that time, been at for several years. But he looked at me kind of strange because I replied so quickly. And then I looked at him strange and said you mean big church, mean big church. In 2015, I spoke on Mother's Day to our whole church, which was like running three to 400 people at that time and scared out of my mind.

Speaker 2: 40:30

One thing I've realized is when I, when I get ready to get up and speak, the few moments before my brain knows nothing. I couldn't tell you one scripture or one focus or point from my notes. I feel like it is this total. It's sort of like I've jumped off the cliff and I can't see where I'm going to land and I just have to trust that God's going to meet me there. And so definitely had one of those moments again and that experience.

Speaker 2: 41:00

But on that platform God met me there and ever since, I mean when God has put something before me, you know, I'm stopping and I'm praying and I'm like Lord, is this really what you want me to do? Because if you want me to do it, I'm going to trust you. I even though I feel horrible, the butterflies are going and I feel like I've just jumped out of an airplane and I don't know where I'm going to land and if I'm going to be okay. But I'm trusting that you have a safety net for me. And so for me, just answering that call over and over again, because God doesn't usually ask us to do things that are in our comfort zone. Usually it's things that are outside of our comfort zone.

Speaker 1: 41:41

Absolutely so powerful, I mean literally like a leap of faith, truly. And I guess my question to you and maybe others are wondering like has has that kind of the anxiousness or the, you know, not able to think kind of situation, has that eased up over the years since you've started stepping out and speaking more, coming out, I would say coming out of hiding, in essence, yeah, so I definitely.

Speaker 2: 42:11

You know, I taught in our women's class and learn to lead, you know, every Sunday, and so in some regard it got a little bit more comfortable. But I will say this too, that when you're stepping out and you're walking in your calling and you're doing what God has asked you to do, there's warfare that comes with that. And so I also remember Sunday mornings being very difficult, because something seemed to always happen with our children, or something like that, either on Saturday night or Sunday morning. And so, even though the nervousness about just getting up and speaking may have slightly lessened and I felt more comfortable, not because of anything but the fact that I knew God would show up and if I prepared, I knew that he wasn't going to leave me, and so I began to trust in that knowing. But that didn't take away from all the obstacles that would come.

Speaker 2: 43:08

And I remember there being Sundays where walking into church if I'm just honest with you, feeling angry because I had to deal with, you know, my kids fighting or whatever that looked like and saying, oh, my goodness, lord, how am I supposed to walk into a room and talk about your mighty power and love when I'm ready to wring somebody's neck right now and just me having to learn to.

Speaker 2: 43:31

Not because I was being um, not that you go in and you're presenting something different, because I'm not talking about being a hypocrite, because many times I would share with the women. I may not have shared the details, but I would share the gist of maybe something I walked through that week to help them know that, man, I am just like you, like I get in the mud of life and it gets all over me. And just because I come to church looking clean and put together doesn't mean I don't experience versions of what you don't experience. And so, if anything, it helped build a rawness and an openness in me to share, because that I know that when I listen to other people speak, I relate to people who are not perfect.

Speaker 1: 44:16

Yes, and I was. I was going to ask a question around that in essence, like who do you most relate to? I don't know about you, but I tend to relate to the underdog.

Speaker 2: 44:25

I relate to the ones who aren't perfectly put together, you know, though, it wasn't easy, and we went through a lot of difficult things in those seven years underneath this pastor and his wife, just in life not because of them, but just in life. But it was just so powerful because I realized that people needed they don't need to hear every detail of your story, but they need to know that you have had a rough time, that things aren't always perfect in your life, and not only that. I feel like I flourished because my pastor's wife was one who would encourage me and share with me stories of the things that they went through, and their life was not perfect. I don't think I could have ministered underneath a pastor and wife where everything just seemed like it all slowed, because I couldn't relate to that. So there's definitely that aspect. Back to your other question about the nervousness. What I saw God do is, whenever he would place me in a new situation so say, in front of a different group of people ministering to a different group, maybe a larger group, maybe it wasn't just women, maybe it was a couple of times I got, you know, asked to speak at other local churches here, just different things like that I would definitely feel that nervousness come back in, but I learned to treat it as a friend, because when you know the fear is going to come. But if you know the fear is going to come and you kind of look at it like, okay, the fear is going to come because, yeah, I'm doing something hard and scary, it's something different than I've done before, so this really just means that God's going to show up and he's going to help me. So I'm probably doing the right thing. And I just learned to convince myself of this Not that it didn't take it away, but I think that because God is always placing us in new situations, he's always trying to stretch us, and so, just as we may you know, have you ever got to a place with the Lord, kristen, where you're like, okay, god, I think I've learned this lesson Like, are we doing this again?

Speaker 2: 46:48

Right, you know, you start getting comfortable and you think, okay, I got it, I got it. And then it's like something comes at you at a new angle and you find yourself going around the circle again with the Lord. I think doing hard and scary things is kind of like that, because it you do it once and you do it in a certain area, and then God asks you to do it a different way and with the in a new area, and he's going to stretch you all over again, and so I think the fact that it doesn't go completely away is actually our saving grace, because it keeps us depending upon him.

Speaker 1: 47:19

Absolutely, and it and it really. I I've said that many times because, you know, just even starting this podcast, 2023, he showed me, like this is the year of the stretch, with your voice, and I was like, oh, so what are we doing? But one of the things similar to what you said, you know that, yes, right, he showed me if it's in alignment, just say yes.

Speaker 2: 47:41

Yeah, we'll take care of it that is so good.

Speaker 1: 47:46

We like being stretched in areas that we would rather just not be stretched in. Like easy it's easier. But we get to be an example of um. You know, in essence it's it's kind of like the underdog. Like I said, I love the underdog, I love the ones that are chosen that don't really fit the whole bill. You know what I Like um it. It's that much more powerful because it is it's the Lord working through us to do the thing that we thought we could never do, right.

Speaker 2: 48:19

Well, and I not only doing the thing we thought we could never do, but what I found in it was I didn't realize I had a passion to teach and encourage women in their faith and help them overcome obstacles so they could step into their calling. Like I didn't know, I couldn't have said those words to you had I not walked through this and first of all seeing my pastor's wife call it out in me and then now not I get the opportunity to call it out in others. But I couldn't even have told you that that was my passion had I not walked through this. And I think that's often what God wants to give us is like these diamonds. You know he's like I have these treasures for you, but if you won't step through this hard and scary door, like, you're not even going to know that you even would have wanted that treasure. So true, yeah, I wouldn't even. I wouldn't have no one to ask for that.

Speaker 2: 49:16

And then, in the middle of that, you know other treasures I found, which look different in every person's life. But I actually found that I enjoyed the studying to, the prepping to teach almost just as much, because the teaching kind of scared me if that's what I had to grow into, but the studying and the preparing and what God would highlight to me. And and then I realized through that I had a passion for writing because I just would pour myself into it. Or, initially, more out of just being scared, I wanted to be over-prepared because I didn't want to get up and have nothing to say to people, and so I was giving God lots to work with, I think, just more out of feeling incompetent to some degree, but then realized that I had a passion for that.

Speaker 2: 50:04

And so I think that there are things that God's like saying to his daughters and his sons like I want to show you things you know not of, but I can't show you if you won't step through this door with me, if you won't step into this season with me and you won't embrace the hard and scary. You know. There's so many things I feel like we miss out on. Not only do we miss out on the dependency and the intimacy with the Lord, but then just in that discovery process, because part of discovering who we are and what God has called us to do is discovering what we don't like and what we do and what excites us and what doesn't.

Speaker 1: 50:42

Oh my gosh, so much goodness here I'm telling you. You know what I'm hearing just in a phrase. It's like in the pressing comes the passion.

Speaker 2: 50:51

Yes, that is so good, kristen, you can say that.

Speaker 1: 50:57

I mean seriously and a lot of times. You know what I. What I find in my heart is to see women continue on, because too often, like, the temptation is to give up before you even get to that place where you you're so close to the treasure.

Speaker 2: 51:14

Yes, right, you're so close to the treasure and I would say treasures because you know we're all always walking through something. I mean it's sort of the nature of this life. I mean I say to people all the time, you know, problems fall in your lap. You have to fight for joy, and so we're all always experiencing things in this life and we usually, you know, if we could, we would opt out of the problems and just take all the joy, or just give me all the joy and let me just here for a little bit. But as much as I don't want to sign up for the problems and I'm never will put my name on a list that says heartache and pain and difficulty but at the same time, there, there, I think that there are ongoing treasures that God wants to give us that we wouldn't take the time to see, otherwise we just would walk right past them. Because you have to dig in the dirt often to find the treasure. And if you're digging in the dirt, it means you're getting messy and life is probably not going the exact way you thought it would, and so I don't know if this could be an encouragement to anybody. I don't know if this could be an encouragement to anybody. But if you find yourself in the darkness and you feel like you're digging, and that you know digging deep, and all you can see is mud, you're not alone and there are treasures that God has there for you.

Speaker 2: 52:40

I know there's my kind of walking through a tough season right now in certain aspects, and one of the things I felt like the Lord was telling me in this past two weeks is dig deeper. And honestly, kristen, those are not the words I wanted to hear from him. You know, I wanted to hear I'm lifting you out, I'm releasing you. You know, things are shifting immediately. But he said dig deeper. And I'm like Lord, what is that mean? In the season, Because I feel like I'm already digging deep and I literally Googled like what did it look like to dig a well in Bible days?

Speaker 2: 53:20

And because I thought, okay, now we have equipment, so it looks far different, you know. And when I Googled it, it said that they would dig wells with their hands or whatever form of shovel that they may have had back then, and they had to be careful because when you go down deep enough, the sides could cave in. And I just thought, wow, lord. So it is truly a walk by faith.

Speaker 2: 53:43

When God is asking you to dig deep, you're trusting that the walls aren't going to cave in, that he's got you and you know, really, if you don't want to see mud, you have to look up. And looking up is from. You know from where our help comes from and so you know. I'm just, I'm thankful that even when God is asking us to dig deep and to cultivate, whatever that looks like in our lives, you know the intimacy with him, the trying to see the treasures in the darkness, even when we're having a hard time seeing them, that God really does have good things for his sons and daughters and man boy. Do we have to dig in the word of God and really trust what the word says about the Lord's character? And really trust what the word says about the Lord's character and that he is a good father and that if his children, you know, ask for bread, he will not give us a stone?

Speaker 1: 54:38

Oh, so good. It has been a joy to have you on here today. I think we'll have to have you back on for more.

Speaker 2: 54:48

I think my favorite thing is just to encourage people and for somebody to know they are not alone.

Speaker 1: 54:54

Well, I was going to ask. So at the end of every episode, I like to ask if you could just get in mind that one who's listening in today. Do you have anything else you'd like to say to her, and would you pray us out today?

Speaker 2: 55:06

Absolutely. I would love to Kristen.

Speaker 1: 55:19

You know if you're walking through a tough season, I would say be really careful what you're telling yourself.

Speaker 2: 55:22

What we tell ourselves is what we tend to believe, which is why God calls us to really be in his word and to replace our words with his.

Speaker 2: 55:32

And something that really stood out to me was the woman with the issue of blood, and she's in three of the four gospels mentioned, and her name is not mentioned.

Speaker 2: 55:45

But what is mentioned is what she was telling herself, and it says in the scripture that she was telling herself if I can just touch the hem of his garment, I will be healed. And that has ministered to me, because it is so important for us to get God's promises deep within us, even if it's just one, for you to hold on to and begin to tell yourself a different story than what circumstances are telling you. You have held on to nothing else, like it, but just hold on and trust that what God is doing, he is going to do something good on the behalf of his daughter or son, and he is a good father. So that's what I would say to the one Just watch what you are telling yourself, because the enemy wants to whisper in your ear and have you to tell yourself things that will lead you down a hopeless road. And so man do whatever it takes, but don't let that happen. And so, kristen, are you okay?

Speaker 2: 57:02

if I go ahead and pray this out yes, okay, lord, I am just so thankful for who you are. Lord, I'm thankful that you are the God who sees your children. You go with us into the places that we would never choose maybe to walk through or in, but you are there with us and, lord, I thank you that. For any listener right now, that is like I'm in a place you know, and this does not feel good. Lord, I thank you that. For any listener right now, that is like I'm in a place you know, and this does not feel good. Lord, I just pray that your powerful presence meets them right where they are right now. Lord, your presence changes the atmosphere of our hearts, it changes the atmosphere of rooms, it shifts perspective and so, lord, I just thank you for the one. I thank you, lord, that you are our one, that we can keep our eyes in you.

Speaker 2: 57:53

In 2 Chronicles 2.20,. Somewhere in there in that chapter, it talks about when Jehoshaphat was being faced with an enemy that was coming against him and they were going to have to fight the battle. There's a verse in there that says, lord, we don't know what to do, but we're keeping our eyes on you and so, lord, may we keep our eyes on you today. May we not look to the left or to the right or to the circumstances that feel like they're pressing in the darkness that feels like it is pressing in, but may we look up and may we look to where our help comes from, knowing that you are fighting battles upon our behalf. May we hear your voice and be more sensitive to your spirit and to your voice than we ever have before. And if you're asking us to step out and to do something that doesn't make sense and you're tapping us on the shoulder and you're saying, hey, you know, I'm asking you to do this, this is the Lord. If you say no, you're saying no to me.

Speaker 2: 58:53

Lord, I just pray you help us to take courage to step out by faith, trusting that you have our backs and that nothing is impossible for you. In fact, the impossible will become inevitable in your hands. And so may you just grow our trust, grow our faith, help us to become more steadfast in your promises, help us to just plunge deeper into your word, that we may know it more than our own words. That when we're looking at circumstances that feel uncomfortable, that feel pressing, that feel painful, that we can literally say to ourselves, we can look around and see what's happening and then say, even though this is what I see, this is the word of God and this is what I am believing, and so I'm going to stand firm on the promises of God.

Speaker 2: 59:48

And so, lord, I just thank you for a strengthening of your body. I thank you, lord, that you are raising up mighty warriors, even those of ones of us who may not always want to fight, lord, but I pray that you are strengthening us, you are calling us forward, you are equipping us and you are empowering us to do everything on this side of heaven that you have spoken over us to do. And, lord, I thank you for it and I just pray. Blessings upon every listener and upon Kristen, and just multiplication and blessing over this podcast, in Jesus name, amen.

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

Amen. You are a powerhouse girl. Love it Well. Thank you for being a brave voice. Who's setting others free. I'm going to close with the anchoring verse for Hope, unlocked it's. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing, so that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So I will have Joelle's contact information in the show notes If you want to get ahold of her social media, all the places. It'll be there and I will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, listeners, and thank you again, joelle.

Speaker 2: 1:00:57

You are so welcome. It was such an honor. Thank you.