Unlocking Healing and Deliverance with Heather O’Brien: Hearing God's Voice for Transformation

In this episode of Hope Unlocked, Kristin Kurtz is joined by Heather O’Brien, as they dive into healing through God's voice. Heather shares her powerful journey of transformation, from battling anxiety and depression to becoming a deliverance minister. She discusses how hearing God's voice and journaling played a significant role in her healing, both emotionally and physically, including her experience with supernatural weight loss. Heather emphasizes the importance of surrendering to God, believing in His healing, and the power of speaking truth over oneself. Tune in for a conversation filled with hope, deliverance, and faith-filled encouragement.

Heather's contact info:

Website - heatherobrien.net

Heal with God podcast - heatherobrien.net/podcast

FREE 7-Day Mental Makeover Challenge! 

Chapters

• 0:16 Welcome to Hope Unlocked
• 2:42 Meeting Heather O'Brien
• 7:02 Healing With God's Voice
• 11:34 Overcoming Anxiety and Pride
• 18:12 Dreams as Divine Communication
• 26:04 Speaking Truth Aloud for Freedom
• 31:06 Closing Prayer and Hope

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm your host, kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wildhearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations and thrive with confidence, courage and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwingscoachingnet and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Welcome Heather O'Brien to the show. I am so excited to have her here today. We are new friends and we met through Jenny Lee Samuel. She happened to be doing a training in the group and I was like I need to know this girl. So we've become fast friends and so blessed to have hopped on a webinar slash training that she was doing Heather was doing last week, kind of hopped on spontaneously and found that what she carries is actually what I need in this season. So I now can call her, one of my beautiful coaches who's helping me through some things, as I'm really walking through the fire in this season, so I'm so thankful for her. Beyond that, heather, would you just share a little bit about yourself for her? Beyond that Heather?

Speaker 2: 1:44

would you just share a little bit about yourself? Oh, what a warm welcome. I'm so honored to get to meet you and I love how we just God just divinely connects us through other people, and you said that's kind of your story too, so that's really cool. I okay, a little bit about me. I'm a boy mom. I've got three boys. I've been married for I think 22 years and I'm gonna count it as a background, but don't really, I mean I do that I use that as because I am a business owner now, but I I stopped to homeschool my kids and start ministering to other Christians about I don't know seven, seven or 10 years ago, probably closer to 10 years now. And yeah, so I'm a licensed minister and I help Christians heal with God, love it.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Well, how did you go down that road? What was the catalyst to bring you down that road? Because you went from boy mom, homeschooling mom, to minister and healer right.

Speaker 2: 2:51

That's a strange trajectory, huh. Well, the thing is and maybe this is probably most people's story is, when you get healed or when you learn something, you want to teach it right. So I got healed and I, at the at the root of me, I'm a teacher and I want to be able to replicate. And so every which way that I got healed, I, I, I would ask God, well, how'd that work? How did I do that? Cause I want to be able to tell someone else. And that turned into the book writing. And I started ministering to people on my lunch hour when I was an accountant, and that, you know, turned into the book writing. And I started ministering to people on my lunch hour when I was an accountant, and that, you know, turned into over COVID. I started staying home with my kids and homeschooling them, and then it just turned into a business, and from there it's just really unlocked.

Speaker 1: 3:38

Beautiful, so tell us the name of your business.

Speaker 2: 3:42

So well, my podcast is really the, the funnel, the top of the face to my business, and it's called the Heal With God podcast. I say that because my business name is not really any. It's not all over the place, so it's really just my name, or Heal With God.

Speaker 1: 3:58

I love it Well, so Heal With God. Tell us a little bit more about the name, like obviously it's a partnership and healing.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Tell us a little bit more about that for podcasting, for online business, and she's the one that really it was a Holy Spirit led moment. I was telling her you know, I've already written six books and I helped coach hundreds of people and at this point I don't know how to name the thing that I do and I would tell her all the things. I mean, I cast devils out of people, I prophesy, I hear God's voice to help them get to the next point. And she had a Holy Spirit moment where it was like no, the name of this is heal with God, which I remember it so clearly. She said I don't know if this is God or me, but it's heal with God.

Speaker 2: 4:56

And I was like that's God. I mean, I felt it from head to toe. When she said, I was like that's it, that it just resonated Like that's the thing that I do. And really the thing is I couldn't quite pinpoint exactly heal with God from what there is no, from what it's, from anything and everything. And that's why it was so tricky, because usually in a business you need to narrow it down, right, and God didn't want me to narrow it down. He's just like no, we're doing the whole thing.

Speaker 1: 5:25

I love it. Yeah, I love that. I'll never forget somebody prophesying over me and saying Kristen, you are not called to be narrow, you're not called to be narrowed down. When it comes to niching, you have different. I even had somebody say you have different chutes. You're like the top of the mountain. You can choose which shoot to go down, to be free. And I think that's at least for me. In the business realm, or even in the, you know, christian kingdom business world training, secular world training, there is that I would even call it a lie that you have to be like super niche down. Yeah, somebody saying it's not just a niche. Like what if?

Speaker 2: 6:11

it's the nations Well, even that is, and so I am an online business coach too, so I totally get it and it's like but we don't want to pin you down, we just want you to be able to speak to your avatar, yes, and be found right, be searchable, be the thing Like I didn't know what I was doing or who I was doing it for, or anything like that, and so that's where it's like okay, no, this is actually unlocking my voice when I can say what I'm doing. So I help people heal with God from anxiety, depression and trauma, and that's really kind of encapsulates the healing part of it. But that's really broad too.

Speaker 1: 6:53

Well, I love it. I mean it really speaks. You know, when we first talked I was like I can definitely see how you know there could be. You know I could send people to you that might come to me for the general coaching. And that's where it's beautiful in the kingdom. Like I can't work with everybody, right, I know when I'm called to maybe pass somebody on to somebody else who can better, you know, care for them, it's beautiful. So one of the questions I wanted to ask was what does it mean to hear God's voice in our healing process? And then why is that the cornerstone of your ministry?

Speaker 2: 7:32

You know. That's a really like. It just depends on who you're talking to. I could come across very prideful if I say, did you know I could hear God? And for other people are like, yeah, of course. So it really depends on who I'm talking to here.

Speaker 2: 7:45

But I didn't know I could hear God's voice and I actually grew up a Christian in a Pentecostal church and that I don't know if that says much about my church or if that says much about how much I wasn't really a Christian. I don't know. I don't know which direction you want to go with it, but somehow I missed the message. I don't know. I don't know which direction you want to go with it, but somehow I missed the message. I'm, I missed the memo that hey, did you know you could hear God? And so, anyways, you said, what does it mean to hear God? And I'm like well, it literally means I hear God and I some.

Speaker 2: 8:19

It's in a lot of different ways and it comes in line with bringing healing to me, because his voice brings direction, conviction and all of the gentle nudges in such a loving way that it's like, oh yeah, and it's like he's just nudging me back on the road and and that's healing in itself, right, because if I'm not on the narrow road then I'm probably not feeling all my best because I'm there's going to be some kind of sin in my life, right? Like so, anxiety, fears and things like that. He nudges us back away from that when he taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, what are you worried about? Why do you have butterflies in your stomach? Why are you anxious? And and I'm like, oh, I'm nervous, but why am I nervous? I'm not supposed to be nervous.

Speaker 2: 9:11

And any his voice gently reminds me you're making this all about you, heather. And I'm like, oh, whoops, there was too much pride in this, because this isn't about me. It is just little things like that that hearing his voice brings healing, because it really brought. Like, in that scenario I just gave you, I got delivered from pride, right, I got delivered from anxiety. That was stemming from the pride, and I don't know if I explained that very well in my story, if I, if that makes sense at all.

Speaker 2: 9:42

But, sometimes I get nervous, like talking in front of people, for instance. So like, if I'm going to go on a stage and talk in front of a crowd, I will find myself nervous. And that's when God would say this isn't about you, heather, and and it was in such a gentle way. Okay, it sounds kind of mean when I say, but I like really, he, he knew what I needed to hear, right, that this is about the message, this is about the people receiving the message. I'm just the one who's has the honor of delivering it.

Speaker 2: 10:22

And so when I turned the focus outward instead of inward I think we talked about navel gazing the other day that's when it's like, oh yeah, I've got anxiety and pride and I'm not allowed to have that. So he's nudging me back onto the narrow road right With his voice, saying, hey, you're making this about you and it was just the way that I needed to hear it, that it brought and surety, that oh yeah. And then you come out and you don't sound nervous or you don't sound anxious, you don't have a quivering voice, right? Why? Because it's not about you.

Speaker 1: 11:01

Yes. So I'm curious in that have you had a lot of like in-person, speaking engagements since, like recently, would you say?

Speaker 2: 11:12

Okay, so actually every week, I teach in front of a class and it's not necessarily a big class, but that is an opportunity for me to get nervous. It doesn't matter how big, it is Right, and sometimes it's more than a week. Once a week, sometimes it's three times a week, I have an opportunity to speak in front of a class and even, just like the other day, I had the webinar right I'm getting online with people in front of people on my computer and that's kind of on a stage in that sense, and I had people from Ireland, canada, texas. To me that's a really big deal and a really big honor and I had to make it not about me.

Speaker 1: 11:56

Yes, yes, Well, and what's so beautiful is, as I was watching you last week, I'm like she is such an anointed teacher and I would never, and there was no iota of nervousness that was coming across the screen. I was like this girl's very confident and I would never imagine nervousness.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Well, I actually conquered it right before I got on film, but it was there, right.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Yeah, would you say. I don't remember who it was, but I feel like I've heard many people who you know say every time they go up on stage or every time they're singing at a concert, you know people who are up on up on stage or every time they're singing at a concert. You know people who are up on stages or in front of people that maybe have a little bit more of a you know, maybe would rather be behind the scenes, but God's called them forward, type people. They say like it hasn't subsided, it's gotten better, but it still is this dependency on God to show up. What would you say to that?

Speaker 2: 12:57

Okay, so I can see two parts to that. Number one. I did grow in confidence because, okay, the very first step that God led me to was way before all the that I just told you about. Hey, don't make this about you. The very first thing he said is you better prepare, because a prepared person isn't as anxious as an unprepared person. Right, and so a prepared person isn't as anxious as an unprepared person.

Speaker 2: 13:29

So if I was prepared, that meant, you know, before I got in front of a class to teach about the Bible, I would pray, I would have a lesson typed out that I could follow, but also that I had practiced. I generally, when I first started, I would practice in front of a mirror, I would practice out loud, I would practice over and over and over, and then, on the way, my stomach would be in knots, like terrible, like just unrelenting, like it was crazy, like how could, like. I know you can't imagine, and my voice quivered. Everything that changed slowly as I learned how to prepare better and I actually experienced oh, this isn't as scary as I thought it would be, and I gained some basic skills. Right, so we do have to practice to gain skills.

Speaker 2: 14:21

But then there was this, that other, that second element? I told you that's where it's like oh yeah, anxiety is a sin that needs to be part of our mindset as a follower of Christ and I think I was just I've really just been pondering over this thought why is anxiety a permissible sin? Somehow in society there's, there are certain permissible sins, right, and it's either permissible because people haven't figured out how to get over it or, uh, they just think everybody suffers with it, so we'll always have to suffer with it, and I just don't believe that that's true. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:11

Yeah Well, go go a little deeper on that. So you mentioned healing from anxiety. Obviously, you know you've shared a little bit about speaking and you know what did it look like prior. You know you weren't hearing or you you weren't hearing his voice. You didn't know that it was possible. But possible. And would you say that there was an element of well healing with God in that hearing him Go a little deeper on your experience with that healing?

Speaker 2: 15:44

Yeah, so I guess all of my speaking engagements that came after I learned how to hear God's voice. I guess I should be really clear, but I still had anxiety, you see, and so I still had to walk through that. There was other things that I walked through by hearing God's voice first, and that would look like depression. That was my first thing, and so I was massively overweight, like a 100 pounds. I know you wouldn't look at me and know, but I'm like I literally lost 100 pounds by learning how to hear God's voice.

Speaker 2: 16:21

And I still have lots of supernatural weight loss stories because in my life I've had three kids and you know, when you have kids, you gain weight and also you get older, your hormones work differently.

Speaker 2: 16:35

You have to learn how to work your body differently, and so if, even recently, the Lord showed me through hearing his voice in a brand new way, hey, you don't need a coach for this, go do this, it's already in your hand, and that's a really fun story, by the way. But if I go back to the back and that's a really fun story, by the way, but if I go back to the back I'm like before I had speaking engagements and knew how to hear God's voice. The very beginning of getting walking out of anxiety and depression and all of the trauma started by journaling and actually dreaming. Like I learned that the dreams at night that I was having was actually God speaking to me and he started teaching me how to understand what those dreams meant through journaling, writing it out, and yeah, that's probably a whole nother segment we could talk about, but it's really it was a process.

Speaker 1: 17:26

Yeah, oh, my gosh, we'll have to have you back for that part, cause I feel like people are like well, how do we do that? I want to. I want to learn more. Um, is that in any of your books that you sure?

Speaker 2: 17:36

it is, uh, one of. So my. The second book that I wrote is called but how. But how? I wasn't really. I didn't know anything about marketing, by the way, and that's what turned me into margins. Like I wrote a book and I wanted to get it in people's hands and I didn't know how, right. And so then I started a whole journey of learning how to market things, but the name of the book was but how, and it's six different recipes to do different things that I've got free of. It was like my journey of healing. Basically it was step one how do you get free of addictions? Cause I would go in church and I would listen to a sermon, especially Wednesday night things. I just remember this over and over and my pastor is amazing, but he would say just don't do this. And even the scripture says stop doing this, like stop cussing.

Speaker 1: 18:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:28

For instance, just stop it. And I'd be like, okay, but how? Like I don't know how to practically stop, cause I want to stop and it's not stopping. And I talk about different addictions that I had in my book. And then I talk about, well, controlling my emotions, Cause I would have erratic, like anger spouts, and I'm not saying I got it all figured out, but God gave me a recipe and I can go back to that recipe anytime.

Speaker 2: 18:54

It's like, okay, heather, you need to go back to your own book. And it's like, literally step-by-step do this, do this, find out why you're mad, find out why your emotions are the way that they are. And I have another chapter about how do I actually hear God's voice, and so that's where I talk about well, this is what I did. I started putting my pen to my paper and I would write a question out to God, and then I would put my pen down and expect with faith that he would answer my question and my pen would start moving and I would know, one word at a time, what to write. So that's really how I started to learn how to hear God's voice. That was my initial process.

Speaker 1: 19:36

Okay, and how many years ago would you say that was? That was probably a decade or so ago. A decade, okay, and since then are you still doing this practice daily? What does that look like for you?

Speaker 2: 19:49

That's a good question. So I usually do the writing part. When I have dreams at night, I write them down, because that's stewarding God's voice, and then I put my pen to the paper and I pray. I always pray, god. I thank you for dreams in the night and I ask for interpretations in the day. And I put my pen to the paper and, by faith, he tells me everything he wants to say.

Speaker 1: 20:19

So beautiful, so I'm imagining you have many journals. I do. Would you be open to sharing with us, maybe like one of your most revelatory dreams and revelations that he gave you?

Speaker 2: 20:36

yeah, okay. So here's a fun one. Um, okay, and this is actually recent, so don't judge me, but it's a really fun to me. I I love that god talks to me through dreams. So I had a dream that, um, I woke up and my eye felt itchy, scratchy, like I was going to have pink eye, and I was going to the drawer to go get medicine and instead of putting the medicine in my eye, I decided to get something and dig stuff out of my ear and this big ball of stuff came out of my ear and I put it on my hand and I was looking at it and I was like, what is this? Now? I mean I could go into detail, but the little thing in my hand turned into a dragon, and that's in a nutshell dream, right. So I thought something was wrong with my eye, but I got stuff out of my ear and it was a dragon.

Speaker 2: 21:46

And here's the interpretation, because and I share this, because the interpretation is so powerful, even to me, still it's. So I love the imagery, right, you see a dragon just sitting in your hand and it's looking at you and I'm like, hmm, and like it was a dragon with wings, right, and see through and anyway. So the interpretation I don't know if you're already getting it, but it's like there was something wrong with my vision. You see, I couldn't see what was ahead of me. I could, like, my vision was blurred, literally in my life. It was blurred because I started a new job and I didn't understand why I got hired, why I got invited, why who am I, I kept saying, and this dragon had three feet. And so in my interpretation, I'm asking the Lord what are these three feet represent? And he gives me three questions that are being whispered to me by this demonic force, and that is what is skewing my eyesight. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 22:53

Yes, and it's removed.

Speaker 2: 22:55

Uh-huh, oh yeah. Well, okay, let me go further. He showed me what the three things were and he showed me I was on vacation in the dream and I literally was like the night before I had the dream I was going on vacation. I came back and the day I came back my eye woke up all sticky, literally Like this is human life. I literally woke up feeling like I had pink eye and I was like no, god showed me that this was going to happen. But this isn't real. I don't have pink eye. I've got something in my ear and I already knew the three things because I had prayed through it. And here's the interesting part I had already prayed through those three things, and so let me just give you an example.

Speaker 2: 23:32

One of the lies the enemy was whispering to me was who am I? And I don't? We could go back to previously, remember. We said I'm making it too much about me when there's I in the statement, it's way too much pride, right? And so who am I to get this job? Well, it's not about me, it's about all the people I can serve. Obviously I'm qualified, or they wouldn't have hired me, right, and I just had to get over myself and all this.

Speaker 2: 24:01

But I had gone through the weekend of praying, through this Okay, yeah, you're right, god, I don't need to worry about any of this but that but I still woke up with the scratchy eye, literally. And so this devil dragon, whatever it was, wasn't gone in my life, wasn't gone in my life. I sat in my closet and I got mad at the devil and I said out loud all of the things I am not partnering with. This spirit that is telling me to question who I am. I know my identity. I am a child of the King. I am called and anointed and appointed for this purpose, and I was, you know. I just went on and on and my eye quit bothering me. That's how God heals. That's how his hearing, hearing his voice, brings healing right.

Speaker 2: 24:50

I got saved, healed and delivered. We all did. I got saved from my own self and all these stupid questions, but I got healed in my physical eye and I got delivered of this dragon, whatever that was whispering to me. Because you have to remember all these lies that we're fighting. They're not always just. We're not so powerful that we create them ourself. There are spirits around us, and so I am a deliverance minister too, and I knew how to do it myself, so it worked out great with God, but I did have to say it out loud. I don't know if I made that really clear. I did it all in my head over the weekend yeah, yeah, this. Yeah, you're right, god. I repented and everything, but it wasn't until I declared it out loud and spoke truth over myself with with a violence that I really got free.

Speaker 1: 25:40

That's for somebody. I mean, could you say that one more time, Like what did you have to do to really get free of this?

Speaker 2: 25:49

Yeah, I had to speak out loud the truth of who I was. Instead, the devil was questioning who am I? And so I had to respond. I am called, anointed, appointed for such a time as this. I am meant for this job. I am made for this job, Like it it's. I'm right on time, I'm right where I'm supposed to be. I had to tell this devil and I had to tell my soul right, Because sometimes your soul starts believing the lies and you, you gotta get. That's how you get deliverance right Body, soul, spirit, all the things.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I could hear the power in her voice as she was just declaring that over herself again today. So, yes, so, for those who are listening in today, who just feel like they're, you know, maybe too broken to be healed, delivered, set free. What would you say to them today?

Speaker 2: 26:45

I'm so sorry you feel that way. I remember feeling that way. I remember feeling like it was ridiculous to even go to the altar for prayer because I don't even know what to say and no one's been there before. There's no way that they would even know what to do for me. I'm so broken, I don't even know what to say and no one's been there before. There's no way that they would even know what to do for me. I'm so broken I don't even know what to ask for. I remember that.

Speaker 2: 27:06

And it's not an altar call that's going to heal you, honey. It's actually your surrender of your brokenness and saying God, I'm so broken I don't know what to pray. Show me what to pray. God, I'm so broken I don't know what to pray. Show me what to pray, and the groaning of the spirit will come up and out of you. And I would say this too partnering with someone who's already been there might be the thing that you need to do, because sometimes we can't pull our own self out of the rabbit hole right. Sometimes we need other people. We're not meant to do this alone, other people, we're not meant to do this alone.

Speaker 1: 27:41

You don't have to do this alone. Yeah, that's huge. And, as we're both coaches, the line that's come for me sometimes is like, oh, you should have it all together. You're a coach, I don't know if it ever comes for you, but truly we need people. I think of Joshua and Caleb and I. I always have this vision of them coaching each other. See those giants, they're our toast like they're our breakfast. And you know, in relation to what you do, tell us a little bit more. How somebody could, you know, walk alongside, how you could walk alongside them and their journey alongside, how you could walk alongside them and their journey.

Speaker 2: 28:19

You know I would be honored to do that and I just want to say like I need a coach too. Like that dragon dream I just told you about, that literally was recent and I had people around me for that vacation that I told the dream to I was, I felt comfortable sharing it with and they were like helping me understand it and we had all these scriptures that came out through it. So it's not like I process that all alone. I'm not that I can't, but I didn't. You know what I'm saying. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. So if you, if you want to work with me, if you feel like you want healing from God, I help Christians heal and you got to want to do it with God because I'm not a therapist, I'm a licensed minister Christians heal and you got to want to do it with God because I'm not a therapist, I'm a licensed minister and you know the best place to learn more about me is just jump on the podcast heal with God. And or you can I'd love to offer my freebie.

Speaker 2: 29:11

It's called the seven day mental makeover challenge and it's really the basic things that you need to start to do in your life so that you can hear God to heal, and it's a challenge For seven days. I double dog. Dare you to do these five things and see what your life looks like at the end? Now, for those people who have actually taken me up on the challenge, they can dramatically see a change in their emotional state in seven days, literally. So for those who feel like it's not, you know they're not up for the challenge and probably that's just. That's the first step, and so that's at heatherobryannet backslash mental makeover challenge, and I'm sure Kristen will put the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 29:55

Sure will. Yes, Well, it has been a blessing to have you on. I want to have you back on again At the end of every show. The Lord has called me to do this Hope Unlocked podcast for the one. And if you could, you know or vision of this woman? Typically, women are listening. What is something that you'd want to say over her, and then would you pray us out today.

Speaker 2: 30:30

Honey, you're not too broken to be healed. It's actually not possible. Jesus died on the cross for you, for your salvation, for your healing and for your deliverance. And just as sure as you believe you're saved, you have to equally believe that you are healed and delivered, or can be right and your salvation is sure. I'm sure you're thinking. I'm sure you're thinking that, yeah, I'm going to heaven and so your salvation, healing and deliverance is the thing that Jesus died for. So I just recommend to you to believe by faith that actually, if I'm saved, I actually am healed and I actually am delivered, and Jesus wants that for me. I'm not that special that I'm the one that he didn't die for healing and salvation and deliverance. No, you're so special that he died for you, for your healing, for your salvation, for your deliverance, and he wants you to have all of that here on earth. He wants you to have the abundant life here on earth. You don't have to wait till you get to heaven. Actually, let's ask heaven to invade you right now.

Speaker 2: 31:28

So, god, I just thank you for what you've done. I thank you for this divine encounter today that we've had, and I ask that your Holy Spirit would just be upon every listener right now. I speak hope over you. I say arise and shine that you are the one that God is calling, anointed, appointed for this season. For this reason, you are right, where you're meant to be, you're on time, you're not late and you're not behind. Yeah, you're not behind. I feel like some of you are thinking you might be behind and or there's just. There's no such thing. The footsteps of the godly are ordered of the Lord, and I speak that over you in the name of Jesus, amen, amen, heather, thank you.

Speaker 1: 32:13

Thank you for being a brave voice who's setting others free. I'm going to close with hope unlocked anchoring verse. It's made the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope, and that's Romans 15, 13. So I will be sure to put Heather's contact information in the show notes. And again, thank you again, heather, for coming on. Would love to have you back on and I will be back with another episode next week. Bye, everybody.