Never Too Late: Susan Otten’s Appalachian Trailblazing Story of Hope and Holy Grit

In this powerful episode of Hope Unlocked, host Kristin Kurtz welcomes Susan Otten—trailblazer, entrepreneur, and founder of Indie Do Good—for an unforgettable story of faith, endurance, and purpose. Susan shares how, at age 65, she hiked 2,194 miles of the Appalachian Trail with her daughter to raise nearly $100,000 for Parkinson’s research in honor of her husband. Along the way, she encountered miracles, battled injuries, and discovered the beauty of God's still small voice. Tune in for inspiration, trail wisdom, and a fresh reminder that it’s never too late to climb your mountain.

Susan's Contact Info:

Website - https://indiedogood.com

Email - Susan@IndieDoGood.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Susan Otten and Her Background
• 10:53 The Appalachian Trail for Parkinson's Research
• 18:05 Navigating Dangerous Terrain and Head Injuries
• 34:45 Trail Angels and Divine Interventions
• 45:44 Mother-Daughter Dynamics on the Trail
• 56:11 Mental Toughness and Spiritual Reflections
• 1:05:44 Lessons Learned and Inspiring Others

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm your host, kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wildhearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations and thrive with confidence, courage and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwingscoachingnet and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy ivy of hope for your soul. Please help me. Welcome Susan Otten to the show. I am so excited to have her here today and wanted to give a shout out to Heidi Haino, who is the founder of our local chapter here in the Twin Cities of a networking group called Few. So shout out to Heidi. I met Susan there and I was just so privileged to be able to hear her amazing testimony of something that she walked out recently, several years ago, and she is definitely a trailblazer and what I would also call a trail guide. So, susan, would you be open to first telling us a little bit about yourself before we get into your amazing story?

Speaker 3: 1:38

Sure, yeah, let's see. Well, I grew up on a dairy farm, which really taught me the importance of faith, family and helping others if you can. I always love the analogy of farming being the only industry that really isn't competitive. You can have two farms kitty corner, across the dirt road from each other and they're not competing from each other and they're not competing. But if there were two gas stations across the corner, you know from each other they would be competing. So that's one of the things I love about growing on a farm is that learning that you know importance of helping others and watching for ways that you can help them.

Speaker 3: 2:18

With that, I went to University of Minnesota here in the great state of Minnesota, first two years up north in Duluth, and then came down to the St Paul campus and actually achieved my goal of getting a job in what I was studying, which was to be a 4-H youth agent. So a faculty of the University of Minnesota but out in the counties that was helping educate kids, and I was there at a time where I was transitioning not just to farm kids but to city kids too. So it was a great time for that organization, a lot of fun. But then I had to relocate to Chicago because that's where my then-boyfriend, now-husband, moved and got his job as he graduated and we needed to be together to be married. So that was great. And then I had an amazing career. I started with the agriculture equipment company quickly after I guess I was there three years, five years, something like that but I answered an ad in the newspaper yes, if you can believe it, that's how you applied for jobs. Yes, I remember, and it was to a little company then called Apple Computer and I talked my way into that job and had an amazing 15 years there. One of my regrets is I didn't keep all my business cards. I think I would have had a full deck of 52. Very dynamic company, very entrepreneurial.

Speaker 3: 3:51

So I learned early on the benefits of being an entrepreneur. You know, thinking creatively, trying things. If didn't work, try it again, make it better. In fact I had a boss one time that said you know that million dollar project you did that didn't work out so great, do it again, don't need so much money this time, you know, because he believed in the concept and it turned out great. And that program grew.

Speaker 3: 4:18

And my last year at Apple I did over 10,000 events and actually, you know it was a marketing function and normally marketing is an expense to the company, right? But I returned cash back to the company. That gave me a budget but I didn't need it and I gave them even more money back because it was a way that I could really help grow the company and it didn't even cost anything and I had a staff of four people. So it was great. A lot of fun, teaches you the importance of process and process improvement, because we did it, we did it again, we did it 10,000 times that last year and it was awesome. Then I went on to do some independent consulting, which I really loved. That was at a time when Apple employees, or former employees, were in really high demand. So I got to work with small companies and also medium and big size companies and then I landed probably well, I don't know, it's hard to pick your favorite company, I guess, but Apple was pretty cool.

Speaker 3: 5:21

Then I worked for as like, cmo for a large agriculture company and it was global they were distributed in 140 countries got to do fun things like launch social media. Corporate wasn't really doing that much social media, but it's like come on, boys, because I was the lone female in a big company. It felt like that's. It wasn't true, but that's what it felt like. It's like we could be number one in social media. You know, we're not, we're number three in in sales, but we can be number one in social media and let's give those farmers something to do other than watching sports scores, playing Angry Birds on their automated autonomous tractors. So that was fun. And got to use cool tools like Google Translate, when it wasn't really that good, but it was good enough because we had to translate into 25 languages for our website and social media and stuff like that. So that was fun. Came back to the great state of Minnesota and started a company called Indie Do Good, which is a logistics company otherwise known as a 3PL or third party logistics company.

Speaker 2: 6:35

And we do warehousing.

Speaker 3: 6:37

shipping for direct to consumer, we'll help. Support for Amazon, do fulfilled by Amazon or fulfilled by merchant FBM, or, if you want it, support for Amazon, do Fulfilled by Merchant FBM, or, if you want it Fulfilled by Amazon FBA, we'll kit for it and get it ready so you don't have so much damage or shrinkage. I guess is a technical term shipping through Amazon and then also for large retail. So we love shipping pallets. It's a lot easier to ship a pallet full of product than that amount of direct-to-consumer orders. So we're called Indie Do Good, because we look for companies that have a strong element of doing good, either through the product itself, like might be really clean food or herbs that help people with problems, homeopathic stuff, um, shelf-stable food. Anyway, we we like helping them, because the more successful they are then the more good they can do so, so there's that I love that name too.

Speaker 3: 7:39

I just yeah, independent companies, they do good and we're here to help you. So let's see, so that's kind of the work side, the personal side. Two kids, amazing kids. Our son is a wealth advisor, our daughter is an emergency veterinarian. So very different career paths. Very, very helpful. Both of them are helping us out with stuff. Our daughter lets us know when something's wrong with our dog and we should fix something like. I just ordered new food bowl for our dog because she's a large breed dog and she eats too fast like she inhales her food and that could cause the stomach to flip in the chest cavity or in the abdomen and that's a really hard surgery. So we're trying to keep sweet little eve um healthy and so she's got a bowl now. That's like a maze so she can't inhale her food in a nanosecond. It took like three minutes to eat this morning.

Speaker 2: 8:40

I couldn't believe it was great I've heard about those bowls I they sound kind of cool like it gives. It gives dogs like a little treasure hunt to eat their own food.

Speaker 3: 8:51

Yeah, yeah, and I thought she would like be frustrated, but mostly she loves her food, so she's. She hung in there and you know she was kind of intrigued by it. I hope.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I hope she continues to enjoy it so we might have to link that bowl in the show night notes, because I'm I'm guessing that somebody might be like what is this that they're talking about? So um I'll have to ask you, but where they can be found. Yeah, we ordered it on good old amazon.

Speaker 3: 9:19

It wasn't that expensive. I can't remember the name of it, but I'll look it up after the show, send it to you. Um, yeah, it's great, and I know they make different ones and this one's nice because I was surprised for the cost. It was less than ten dollars, I think, and um, it's pretty heavy. I thought it would like, because they're going at it, they're trying to get their food out and I thought it would slide around the floor. But it's, it's good. Eve did well.

Speaker 3: 9:44

We'll see how she does it for time that's very sweet yeah, so, um and then so and our son and his wife Mackenzie have, um, our first grandchild. It's um, um, heat trip is a joy and I get to babysit him one day a week and and and that's so fun. I'm kind of going through withdrawal now because it's summer and Kenzie is a teacher so I don't need me anymore, but but that's not true. I guess on Friday I get to babysit him because Kenzie's got an opportunity to get away from home for a day, so that'll be, fun.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:22

I have a very I love if you guys are listening, if you listen well, like I tend to love listening to people. Susan says fun a lot. She is very fun, she is so fun, and I was just when we were talking right before this, I was just saying how God is so fun, right, yeah, and he is so fun that he brought you on like one of the most amazing adventures ever. I would love for you to share, um your story about that and kind of how how this all like transpired, because, um, you know, I look at you and I'm like, wow, you are so inspirational and I can't wait for people to be so inspired by your story in that realm. That's sweet.

Speaker 3: 11:06

That's very humbling. So in 2022, my daughter was going to be done with her vet med internship or residency and ready to start a job. But before she started a job, she and a friend of hers who was also finishing vet school wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail, and it goes from Maine to Georgia. It kind of changes the length every year because as they repair the trail or, you know, fix parts of it, it the length changes. But, um, I rounded up to 2200, but we, when we did it, was 2194.3 miles along the trail. Wow, and I love that you called me a trailblazer, because the trail is marked by what they call blazes and they're it.

Speaker 1: 12:00

Yes, wow, didn't you know that?

Speaker 3: 12:03

no. So I'm like, oh, that's where trailblazer comes from, you know, and they're just white splotches of paint every once in a while on a tree so that you can find your way, and it's so you are a trailblazer. There is mostly like decent or you can see where to go, but sometimes there's not, especially in the fall, when the crazy leaves, you know, and you've not lived. This is one why I wouldn't call it fun. You have not lived until you've walked in trees up or leaves up to your knees in the fall. Dry leaves, they make so much noise. They gave us headaches, yeah, but it was better dry than wet. They gave us something else when it was when they were wet, yeah, but the purpose of this, this epic journey, was to raise Parkinson's disease research funds.

Speaker 3: 13:04

Our organization that we worked with was Michael J Fox Foundation, and the reason we did it, the why behind it, is my husband, greta. Our daughter's dad has Parkinson's. He was diagnosed at 51 and doing pretty good. Up until like really a few years ago he was good enough. He could stay on his own. Mostly while we were on trail we had our son and daughter-in-law here close by to check in on him and cook him a nice healthy meal once in a while. So it was fine. But that was the why behind it.

Speaker 3: 13:42

And we raised a little under a hundred thousand dollars while while we were on well, with that initiative, I was going to say while we're on trail, but people continued to give for a while after the trail was done we we um, we had to start in maine, which is at the northern end, which is backwards, because at the last minute not last minute my daughter's friend that was going to go with her the other veterinarian decided she couldn't do it. She needed to start working and start paying off her vet school bills. So she had to back out. And I'm like, well, and we used to to Greta, used to go to Mercer University and their mascot was the bears, and so I became mama bear and she became baby bear and this mama bear was not going to let baby bear do the trail alone. I didn't know much about the trail. I knew it was a long way. I knew there were some stories about dangerous things along the trail, so I was not going to let her go do the trail on her own and so she let me come along. I did some hiking with her and her friend Shannon, but not like the Uber hiking that the Appalachian Trail is.

Speaker 3: 15:03

So we started up north because she didn't get done with her internship until the middle of july or the beginning of july. Then she had to interview and find a job. So she interviewed and got offers and negotiated and you know all that stuff, and accepted and said, okay, remember, this is july. She said to them I'll see you in january. And then they're looking at her, what? And she said, well, I've made this commitment to myself and my family to hike the Appalachian Trail for Parkinson's disease research and my mom and I are starting July 15th and they're like wow. And they held her job and they did a number of articles in the employee newsletter so people could know they have a new staff member but may not see much of her for a few months. So that that was great yeah and so we started, and.

Speaker 3: 15:57

But before that I'm you know there's a lot of work to prepare, just like in life. You can't just go do something big without preparing for it, right, and so I um. But I don't know if people that are listening really know about minnesota. We don't really have mountains in minnesota like they do on the trip on the appalachian trail. Right, the appalachian trail is the shortest of the three major north-south trails in the United States, but it's also the steepest. It's like going up and down Mount Everest 16 times, and so, with it being the shortest, that makes it by far the steepest of the trails. So elevation was something that I couldn't really prepare for here in Minnesota.

Speaker 3: 16:41

I did get my backpack early enough that I couldn't really prepare for here in Minnesota. I did get my backpack early enough that I could start training with it, because I was worried that my back wouldn't be strong enough to carry the stuff I needed along the trail, because you have to carry everything you need. It's not like you're going to check into a hotel every night and have shampoo and all the stuff you need or food, you know. So when we started out our backpacks, we were a little, a little over generous. I guess, or I don't know part of it was being we were started in the north. After you start there's 100 mile wilderness that there's no access to grocery stores and we didn't know how fast we were going to be going. So how long is it going to take us to do a hundred miles? We figured we better pack enough for 12 days just to be safe.

Speaker 3: 17:38

And so our packs weighed like 42, 43, 44 pounds, something like that. Like 42, 43, 44 pounds, something like that. And um, so I was afraid you know that I wouldn't be able to sustain hiking every day. Um, not that I have a bad back, but that's still nobody. Really a lot lugs that amount of weight around daily, especially climbing up and down mountains. So I got my backpack and I started putting hand weights or disc weights in them to increase the weight slowly. I still didn't have the elevation to practice on, so I would walk up and down the ditches alongside the road. Just try to get so inclined to work on my glutes and hips and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 18:25

So yeah, can I stop you for a second? Because you're tiny like you're. You're tiny and can you tell us in 2022, how old were you?

Speaker 3: 19:15

I was 65 when we started. I turned 66 on the trail in December when we were almost done. Yeah, I'm about five. I haven't measured myself a long time. Five, three, five, four, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:31

So I just want you guys to know, like as you're listening to her, like the demographic and the just amazingness that she has like truly. And it'll just be this. You know, illumination of it's never too late, right, it's never too late. You're never too old, you don't have to be a certain age, you don't have to look a certain way to do anything, yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:55

And that's such a great reminder that you know that is so true. That's such a great reminder that you know that is so true. And first of all, you have to kind of combine little old me with my 27-year-old, six-foot-tall, two-sport, d1 athlete daughter, who's done more marathons than she can count, including an Ironman, to raise money for Parkinson's so, and I had to, and I have to keep up with her, like literally, she'd take a stride, I would have to take like one and a half to keep up with her. So there were places on the trail where she would say, like we're doing a rock scramble or climbing down a mountain or whatever, okay, just put your hand here and your foot here. And it's like, yeah, but my foot there's like a foot like 12 inches before my foot will reach where you're telling me to put my foot. She said, okay, well, just let go of your hand and just slide down the mountain, you know, slide down the rock until your foot hits there, what you know. That's just weird, but it did have an advantage.

Speaker 3: 21:03

There was one point where we were scrambling. It's called Mahusak Notch and it's a mile long and it took us like three hours. It's like you're climbing, you're bouldering, you're climbing under stuff. You have to take your backpack off and pass it through and hand it up and stuff like that. And there was this one place where I'm like you, you're kidding me the rock was like at least twice as, at least twice as tall as me and there was no way I could get up and there was no route to go around it. And I'm just standing there looking at it and like, and then my daughter caught up to me and she's like, oh my and. But you know, there was so many cool miracles of God along the trail and this was one of them, because there was a family that was going the other direction and this big, you know beast of a man just flops down on his belly, puts his hand like bends over, Like he's got his waist at the edge so he can be long enough to grab my hand, and I had my backpack on and he said, okay, ready, and he lifted me up on top of that rock and I'm just like, how did? How did you know I was speechless, I couldn't, I guess, like I didn't even have time to think about it, or like decline, or like be bashful or anything. He's just give me your hand and he isn't the kind of guy you really argue with and he just pulled me up like, oh, my goodness, that was great. Um, but there was, there were times that definitely you know, the hype is an advantage on the trail, let me just put it that way. So it was crazy, but so we were starting out.

Speaker 3: 22:42

We're going the wrong direction. We're also starting really late and that's the other reason why we had to go north to south, because they close the mountain at the beginning of the trail because it gets so much snow and people die on that mountain, so they close it. You can't get up there to start, and that's another thing. You hike on your first day four miles for the fun of it to get to the top of the mountain which is the official start of the trail, that's Mount Katahdin, and so that's fun, you know, carrying that 42 pound backpack. Then you turn, you get to the top, take a picture by the sign that says the start of the trail, and then turn around and go back down. Now there's multiple ways to get down and of course my daughter didn't want to like go the way we just came up, so we go down, which it's not.

Speaker 3: 23:31

I don't think that one is called Knife's Edge, but that's what it kind of looks like. I mean, it's a sheer drop off on one side and the other side is up against more rocks and just crazy. And that's that's literally the. You know, it's our first day. And she says, okay, hand here, foot here. And my foot didn't reach and she said to me just let go, and I'm like I'll catch you. You know my I'll, I'll use my hands like a stirrup to to stop, you know, so you won't fall.

Speaker 3: 23:58

And I mean, that's something that we learned early on was trust, and you know that's. There's people in this world that are, you know, smart, smarter and more capable, and I think of business leaders or people that are leading very diverse teams. Or, you know, sometimes you just have to stop and listen to. You know if you're the leader and you're leading people, sometimes you're leading leaders. They may not have that title, but they're really smart or experienced or have vision that you don't have, and being open to that is so important. I mean, on the trail we learned so many lessons. It just was such an amazing experience and, like you had mentioned, that really age isn't a factor, size isn't a factor and we met numbers of people on the trail that I felt really proud to have influenced some of their future decisions, like one sweet couple yeah, when we retire we're going to do the trail.

Speaker 3: 25:06

And they invited us into their home and you know they're called trail angels that's like an official term. On the trail People reach out and offer help and you know people would follow us on our YouTube channel, which is Appalachian Trail for Parkinson's Disease. There's 96 videos out there, including one at the end. That is the whole trail in like less than an hour. I think it's like 54 minutes or 56 minutes or something like that. And but they said after they had us into their home and, you know, gave us a warm bed to sleep in and, if I remember right, we had our own bedrooms in that house and, okay, we shared a bathroom, but it was a bathroom, it wasn't a shovel. You went and digged a hole, you know. So it was. You know they cooked us a meal, they did our laundry and that's typical of what trail angels will do.

Speaker 3: 26:02

But they said, after meeting us and spending time with us in their home, they're like what are we waiting for? We can carve out time, we can. We can do a weekend hike. We can do, we can take our week's vacation and do a hike, we don't need to wait. There was other people that were um, we met this really sweet group of older ladies that every I don't know if it was every weekend, but they baked cookies and they had them in prepackaged, you know bags for us and they met hikers on the trail and handed out fresh baked cookies and they said after meeting us, they're like well, we can hike. If you can hike, we can hike, you know. So that was so cool and just sweet things like that that we learned from people along the trail.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Another family that had us in their home, the husband, was hiking sections of the trail instead. It's hard to do the whole thing because it's hard to get that much time off. It took us 154 days on trail and we were away from home like five and a half months and I guess it was five months, ten days, a little bit less, because our goal was to be home by Christmas and the third hurricane was coming in and slamming the East Coast and we were kind of used to it, you know, by then being in the weather and stuff like that and we had the clothes for it. But we didn't want the people that were cheering us in at the end because we used to live in Atlanta and the southern terminus isn't that far from where we live. So we had a bunch of people that came out and then Greta put a message out on social media Extra brownie points if A you wear an ugly Christmas sweater or Christmas attire. Double points if you bring a dog. And I think she said something about oh, that we're going to Moe's it's a Mexican restaurant that we loved when we lived down there and we're going to Moe's it's a Mexican restaurant that we loved when we lived down there and we're going to Moe's afterwards. So anybody who wants to come with you know, feel free. But that kind of stuff, just it made for such great memories and that, yes, you can do more than you know, you can think or imagine, especially with like.

Speaker 3: 28:19

For me, god was such an important part of our team and I broke my learnings down into tools. You need the right tools right and on the trail. You need a lot of gear, and talk about that. But if you have the best gear in the world and you don't know how to use it. Or how to throw up that Trent tent in the pouring rain, or how to get, you know, a fire started when everything you see and touch is wet, you know, and you're out of gas fuel, you know. What do you do? What do you eat, you know.

Speaker 3: 28:51

And then, and the third thing, component or way that I broke down the learnings was team, and Greta was an amazing team leader. It took me a while, literally a few thunks upside the head, to realize that she was a better leader than I was, even though I was older and business executive blah, blah, blah. That really doesn't matter. The things that she was better at are the things that mattered along the trail. So I did learn to back off, back down and let her lead and encourage her leadership and otherwise, you know, may not have ended the way it ended, which was fabulous, you know, we accomplished our goal Because we had, you know, get home by Christmas, raise money for Parkinson's and the third goal really was don't die. And came close a couple of times. But I had two ER worthy head injuries one on day 18, which isn't that far into it, kind of makes you stop and think but tripped on a root, hit my head on a root. And then what happened next was one of the regrets I have of the trail Not hitting my head, getting nine stitches.

Speaker 3: 30:07

But I didn't. It was about 1.30 in the afternoon, beautiful August day. Hadn't seen anybody on trail all day. And when I sat up at my side were two gentlemen and the one says to the other one hey, joe. And when I sat up at my side were two gentlemen and the one says to the other one hey Joe. Know, when I fell last week and I hit my head, I think I have some of those steering strips left in my backpack. Can you get it out while I tend to the lady? And then he goes oh, and you know that big waterproof bandage that we put on top of it to hold all the blood in. We'll need that too. And you know I didn't ask them. My regret was I didn't ask them to turn around to see the angel wings.

Speaker 1: 30:46

Oh yeah, they were just amazing and they were going the opposite direction. They got me all bandaged up on my way.

Speaker 3: 30:52

They're like are you okay to hike? And I said yep. And they're like well, the road is about three and a half miles. That way You're going the right direction. And off they went, and off we went, and so that was miracle number one. Then we get to the road crossing. We didn't even have our backpacks off, we didn't have our thumbs out to hitchhike, and a car stopped and the guy rolled down the window and said you gals need some help.

Speaker 2: 31:20

I love that.

Speaker 3: 31:22

It was so cute and they were. They were like weekend hiking and camping and stuff and and we said, yeah, we didn't, we need to get to an ER, but we don't have any connection, we can't. You know, we don't know, we don't have any Wi-Fi, we don't know which way to go. And he turns to his wife and says, hey, we go past the hospital on the way home, don't we? And she said, yeah, it's about, it's more than an hour away. And he says, jump in. They were going right past it and um took us to the front door. Um, nine stitches later, the uh, the er doc is asking us so where are you staying tonight? You need a ride. When does a doctor ask you that kind of you know, you know, crazy wait? We didn't know where we were staying. You know, most were hungry and tired and had to, had to find where we were going to stay. And so we start walking and carrying our backpacks and now I have a big bloody bandage on my head, but at least I have nine stitches that were holding together. So it quit bleeding and um stopped it. We're standing. Oh, this is the other thing. It was, you know, 2022.

Speaker 3: 32:28

So a lot of these little towns along the trail, all the restaurants were closed on Mondays and sometimes Tuesdays, and this was a Monday night. So we didn't know where we were going to find food because. And so we're standing at this like local branded A&W type drive-in restaurant and we're should we just have ice cream for supper? You know, nothing's going to be available. It's right here. So we're standing there pondering and discussing and this guy, big motorcycle, he's got a big old, you know chopper Harley sitting there and he's like what's your story? He's like talking to us and he's he's like, okay, well, here's $50 for Parkinson's, here's a 20 for supper, and there's a hotel about a half mile up that I'm sure they have room, and right next door is a Chinese restaurant. Get yourself a good meal.

Speaker 3: 33:26

And um, and he said in my and where did you get off on the trail? And we're like, oh, not quite sure, but it was, you know, an hour north of here, north of here. And he says, well, our daughter lives up that way and my wife's been wanting to go see her, so she'll take you back to the trail tomorrow morning and go see our daughter, like she's been trying to. So it just everything just worked out beautifully and um, no concussion, nothing. I fell again um, about halfway through or not quite um, the great of Pennsylvania, which is known as Rocksylvania. On the trip or on the trail and standing up pointy, wobbly rocks that you're hiking on roll, I could do so. I didn't smash my face and break my teeth or nose, poke my eye out on these pointy rocks and hit the top of my head and that was 10 staples. And that's a little weird, getting your head stapled together.

Speaker 2: 34:31

But the head like bleed, a lot Like was. It was on the top of your head.

Speaker 3: 34:38

Yes, and it bled so much and it wouldn't stop because you know there's nothing holding it together. I had a buff because it was warm and you know the stereo strips were on it before it kind of held it shut and then I put the buff on top of it that had enough compression that it it slowed the bleeding. But the one on the top of my head it just kept dripping and bleeding and so I'm trying to walk with one trekking pole on these standy up, pointy, wobbly rocks with the buff on top of my head and me trying to do compression down for a mile and a half before there was a road crossing.

Speaker 3: 35:19

And you still had your backpack on yeah, I think both times though Greta lightened the load a little bit so I didn't have, but she couldn't carry both packs. That'd be, you know, 70 pounds. So, um, there is one time where she did carry a part of my pack because I had rolled my ankle really bad, but it wasn't a break, so just keep walking on it, but it helped to not have that much weight Anyway. So the the trail was amazing, you know, taught us amazing lessons. One thing that I really loved about the trail is the lessons are so extensible, so universal. They apply to thing I think I mentioned, you know, leadership, and also I've done a workshop at an entrepreneur's competition, a collegiate competition.

Speaker 3: 36:13

I've done a workshop at using the story as a metaphor for the journey to well-being and mental, you know, good mental health, and it's just it's it's. You know I'm sad when I say it's a once in a lifetime experience, because I would love to get out there and do it again. I just don't know if I would ever have that amount of time. I don't think I would do it by myself. I, you know, now my husband's Parkinson's is worse and you know, I'm not, I'm not sure he could safely be good for five and a half months, or the other trails are longer, so they might take, they would take longer, but that doesn't you know.

Speaker 3: 37:00

But that shouldn't stop me. You can still get outside in God's beauty and God's creation and draw power and energy from that, and that's what helps me to stay balanced and focused and focused on God. Because man, who makes creation like this, who makes trees that have big, fluffy bonnets, or the tree that I'm looking at outside my office window that is dead in the middle, the center branch, but, as you pointed out so wisely, each side of the tree looks like it's holding hands up to heaven. A raisin and praisin, yes. Yes, I love that We've got to get that dead part cut out so it grows nice again. They're so resilient. But in the meantime I can have a raisin and praisin team tree, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:00

Erin and her holding up Moses's arms right.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:05

Well, you mentioned even the word resilient right. So on this journey you said it was how many miles again?

Speaker 3: 38:13

2,194.3. And that doesn't count the trips walking into town and back when you have to go get groceries.

Speaker 2: 38:22

So did you guys keep track of how many steps you took too?

Speaker 3: 38:27

I suppose we could add them up. We did. We kept. We had a paper map in case our you know, gps doesn't really work great on the trail. We had a satellite communication device If we, you know, in case of emergency, if we had to put out a distress call, and that mapped our location and we had a group of like family and friends that we'd send a message at the end of every day. You know, we're safe, we're at camp, or we're safe, we're in town, and it would grab the location where we're at and send that in the message. So at least they would have something, you know, that would be 24 hours old if someone had to come find us or something.

Speaker 3: 39:09

Um, there was one time when I thought for sure we were going to have to get medevaced out because I was walking on what a knife's edge and Greta was ahead and sometimes these rocks have like fissures in them or cracks, and this was a very smooth, slanted rock and Greta had stopped to turn around and made sure I was coming, okay, and I climbed with the face of the rock, you know kind of rock scrambled, up to the top and then, oh, we can just walk across, oh, and it was drizzling.

Speaker 3: 39:42

It was slightly, slightly damp, just enough to make the rock so slippery. And I took one step onto the top of that rock, not realizing it was going to be slippery like that, and slid down the rock until my downhill leg dropped into one of those cracks and of course, the momentum and the weight of my pack continued to push me down the rock. And Greta said she saw my leg bend sideways, like at about a 45 degree or maybe a little more than that. It wasn't 90 degrees, but she saw the leg bend where it's not supposed to bend and I still have a bruise that's like a permanent dent in the muscle on that leg.

Speaker 3: 40:28

you know it's, and if I would have gone over the edge I mean it was a blessing that my leg dropped into that crack, otherwise I would have slid down the face of the rock and dropped probably 40 feet oh my word To the little rock chunks below. So that was that was. That was a good thing that I, that I had a bent leg.

Speaker 2: 40:56

So you're, in essence, doing like rock climbing right? Yeah, you know I've done that before?

Speaker 3: 41:01

No, and that was a surprise. I thought it was. You know, a trail, a hike, a walk in the woods right, Like you're like. Oh, this is gonna be great, it's just nuts and I mean Mahusaknach was the worst, because I was just. It was like giants took rocks and thought it'd be fun to just throw them down this crevice, this ravine, in the mountain. Or somebody that mapped the trail had a sick sense of humor and, oh yes, let's just have them go up this rocky, you know, rock choked ravine, you know.

Speaker 3: 41:39

okay, boys, you could have done it like around the side of this rock, we wouldn't have to go straight through it like create some stairs or something, yeah yeah, well, there was places where that during the depression, it was the civilian corps that they did cut uh, steps and rocks and so it is, and that was great. But, yeah, I kind of fell down almost fell down one of those too and good old Greta came to help me up and stepped on my trekking pole.

Speaker 2: 42:09

That then thwacked me in the eye and had a great black eye and that was like day six or something like so I'm just getting this picture of you, okay, so, so you're not, and I'm just imagining myself, like you don't do rock climbing, no, you kind of go into this like you know, not fully knowing, like what it's going to be like, which to me is like huge faith, right? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 42:34

So, you're standing there looking at this like rock mountain. What's going through your head? Like what is going through your head. Like what? What is going through your head?

Speaker 3: 42:43

well, one thing was it was never an option to quit okay, and I think that again, never an option to quit, and I think that's so important to life to have like a purpose or something that's bigger than yourself. And even like every time I'd fall which was every day I mean my goal. I tried real hard. I don't think I had a day I'd have to double check with Greta because it's kind of a blur but I don't think I had a day that I didn't have some type of fall. And we define we even define the fault. Like if I could stop my downward momentum with my hand and my butt didn't touch the ground or my knee didn't touch the ground, that was not a fall, okay.

Speaker 2: 43:29

So you had different levels of falling.

Speaker 3: 43:31

Yeah, but the I, I, I tried real hard to not fall and it's just, your center of gravity is off. I'm not that strong. I mean you got stronger. You also are dog tired. We average 14 and a quarter miles a day. On average, if you like the trail, you burn 5000 calories a day. We couldn't carry that much food, you know. So we're, you know, losing weight? You know not. Not, as I mean, we made up for it. When we got into town then it was fully loaded like I don't know how many grams of sugar, 64 grams of sugar. Mountain dew pounded those down like we'd split a six-pack between the two of us, like in the first, in one sitting, 15 minutes in town. Yeah, I mean, always dehydrated water is heavy to carry. We had a water filter system, um, but still, you, you try not to drink that much during the day because you have to stop and pee all the time and then you really don't want to drink. We drink good as soon as we get to camp, but then you don't want to get up in the middle of the night and have to go out. You know where's the shovel, where's the? You know what's toilet paper? You don't, you know, no, so yeah, it just it's complicated, so it um, we, we.

Speaker 3: 44:56

I give a presentation on this amazing story and I even have a slide in there that says ignorance is bliss, absolutely. I would say I was clueless, but it didn't matter, because once I figured it out, it wasn't an option, and Greta and I were talking about that the other day that, for us, this was our job, was our job. You know, you get up in the morning. We had it down to a great system. You know, when we would get to camp, greta would start cooking. I start setting up the tent.

Speaker 3: 45:26

There were certain things I couldn't do, you know was really hard to do on my own, so she'd help me, you know, get the structure of the tent up and then I would roll the sleeping bags out, get the backpack secure, get the food out so she could cook. You know, do all that stuff while she's filtering water. You know we had it down to really a good system in the morning. Vice versa, we would time ourselves and try to beat our time, you know, to get more efficient and stuff like that. So, but it was a job, this is what we're doing. And my husband would say, you know, well, after the second fall he said I had to get a helmet, and he said a hockey helmet with a full metal cage face.

Speaker 3: 46:08

You know, face guard Like a goalie helmet.

Speaker 3: 46:10

Yeah yeah, well, or even players will have helmets that have a metal face guard thing, and so we were in town where there was a dick sporting goods and we went there and and it was getting to be fall, so hockey was starting up and I tried one of those helmets on and, oh my gosh, I have new respect for hockey players, which our son has played hockey since he was four years old and he's over 30 years old now and he's still coaching and playing, so I have new respect for hockey players because those are stinking heavy.

Speaker 3: 46:45

I cannot believe how heavy they were and there's like there's no way I can hike the trail with a hockey helmet. So we went over to the BMX bike helmet you know a really great salesperson that was helping us out and found one that was lightweight, still had like a visor, so if I went face planting it would kind of protect my face, maybe a little bit, and then it was tons lighter and I love it because it has a really good gash on one side. There would have been another ER visit, I'm convinced, so you saved it obviously. Yeah, I really. Someone suggested one of the people that were following along our journey put a comment in that I should auction it off for Parkinson's research, and I think that'd be so much fun, so maybe I'll figure out a way to do that.

Speaker 2: 47:42

There you go, yeah Well, so as you guys are, like you know, working this thing out, I, as I'm listening, I'm thinking of Proverbs 3, 5 through 6, it's trust the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding like the ignorance is bliss part. Right In all your ways. Acknowledge him and he will make straight your paths. So this is kind of maybe a fun question. What was the most annoying thing about being with each other for 150 plus days?

Speaker 3: 48:14

Oh my gosh Well, one thing was sleeping. Oh my gosh Well, one thing was sleeping. And Greta had been away from home for nine years four years undergrad, four years vet school and then one year vet med, internship, slash kind of residency. She comes home and she's home for, I think, eight days before we got on the plane and flew to Maine. Eight days, Eight days, Eight days. Well, she, you know she had all these. She had these interviews lined up with three different vet practices. She interviewed, negotiated the offers and then we got on a plane. Oh, maybe it was. No, it was a little more than that. I'm bad at math. She got home like July 3rd and we flew out the 14th because we had to get to the campsite. We wanted to start on the 15th. We figured that would give us enough time to get home for Christmas.

Speaker 3: 49:10

And so the and the other thing you know in the ignorance is bliss category. You know, back to the annoying, the most annoying thing about being together you are so sore and tired by the end of the day and then you're sleeping in a sleeping bag on the ground and we had inflatable air mattresses but they were annoying because they they squeaked when you rolled over on them. They were kind of squeaky and crunchy and um, I mean, you got used to it, but still, the only place, the only way it was really totally comfortable for any length of time, was flat on your back, oh and, and then I snore when I'm flat on my back so that was annoying for Greta that was very annoying and it was annoying for me because she kept punching me in the middle of the night to roll over, you know so.

Speaker 3: 50:02

So there was that. Other than that, you know, we got our routine down pretty good. There was times where, you know, I was kind of a whiny baby and I just wanted some sympathy. And Greta's not that way. She's like buck up and deal with it, let's go, kind of thing. And and she was right, I mean we didn't have time for me to be a puddle and wham, wham, wham, we had to get, you know, we had to move it. So with that last hurricane coming in, there were days where we were doing close to a marathon a day, that last week, to try to beat the weather. So that was that was annoying.

Speaker 3: 50:52

There was, but with each other, I mean this is another thing that was really important, having that purpose. We had a common mission, we had a common God. We both believed in the miracles of trail. Angels was a real thing along the trail and they were truly angels. They were helping us. One time we never even met the people. They had a cooler.

Speaker 3: 51:07

Oh, you have trail names, like, I guess, for security reasons or whatever. So people can't track you down or go rob your house or something I don't know. But everybody has trail names and it took us a long time to figure out trail names because normally your trail family, like who you're hiking with, gives you your name and Greta kept giving me stupid suggestions that I didn't want visit fall. Um. Someone on social media a number of people did actually suggested that greta be lilo and I be stitched, so that became our trail name. And um, in fact I'm looking in my office I have this cute, adorable um drawing that some trail angels got for us. Um, at Disney World that's Lilo and Stitch hugging each other. It's just so yeah, so sweet. But then, when, then, when I fell and got the staples, then ha ha, thanks very much fans were suggesting I change it to Lilo and Staples, but that didn't. That didn't really roll off the tongue as nicely, so we kept stitch. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 52:20

Well, so speaking of kind of the flip side of annoyance, like what was your most favorite moment together, if you were to say, gosh, there were so many, I don't know, probably the beginning and the end and the end would have trumped it Again. It's kind of like the beginning you reach the end of the trail and then, for the fun of it, for the end for the beginning, you know, you hike like four miles for the fun of it. At the end it's like eight or nine miles to get down to the state park's parking lot where your friends are to cheer you in, but there's this really pretty stone arch and you walk through the stone arch and that's kind of like the iconic end of the trail, even though it ended eight or nine miles before that. But everybody was there and great photo op and stuff like that and, and you know, greta's dad, my husband, were there and some of our good friends and it was just really sweet that we actually did it.

Speaker 3: 53:23

Another one when we got to the official terminus or end of the trail that eight or nine miles before, greta is not a crier by any stretch of the imagination. She's, you know, she's tough and down to business and you know. But when we got to the, to the end, and there's a book there in a metal case hidden in the rock that you pull out and you sign your names and then you've finished the trail or you started the trail, depending on which way you're going, and it's like, and she knew it, she, she knew that we were at the end before I did, because she was, you know, kind of tracking it and stuff like that. And, um, she just started crying and it was very, very sweet to see her. You know that we actually actually did it.

Speaker 2: 54:16

That was pretty cool mind like mind blowing right yeah.

Speaker 3: 54:20

Yeah, it's like okay, it's like it almost, almost felt surreal, you know, like like the end of a movie is like right, Okay, we did it what we did.

Speaker 2: 54:32

How do we go back to real life, Like like, moment of like? How do I integrate back into like life?

Speaker 3: 54:40

Absolutely. In fact, people had warned us, kind of like the last, I don't know, third of the trail or so, that okay beware, reentry is really hard. People have a lot of mental health issues, you know a lot of depression and you know you can imagine being, on average, out in God's creation for 14 and a quarter miles. I mean looking at all this beauty and just fun things. That happened.

Speaker 3: 55:07

Like there was one place at the beginning and I think God did this on purpose that at the top of mountains where it was sunny, like not in the woods, but you'd like get to the top, the crust of the mountain, and there'd be a gazillion blueberry bushes and we could not pick and we couldn't pick enough.

Speaker 3: 55:27

I mean, we, we like, had to like remind yourself that we have to get going and we just sat on a rock and ate blueberries, you know, for like an hour and um, and then we, um, we had um netting to put over your face, because there's times on the trail there's like black flies or deer flies or mosquitoes or whatever and it's really irritating when they bite your face and your eyes and stuff.

Speaker 3: 55:51

So we had one, we each had a head netting and greta filled up her head netting with blueberries and then we went on our way, yeah, and then it was great because I think at that time Greta was also eating um. You have to kind of figure out what food works for you and and then you settle on it and then you eat the same thing, you know, for the rest of the trail, and mine was cold soak, oatmeal, um with um cricket powder I use ground cricket for protein and um because I'm vegetarian, except for crickets um and then um and m&ms for extra calories. But it's cold soak so the m&ms don't get like melty and gushy like they normally do if you do it when you put those in your oatmeal with cricket.

Speaker 2: 56:41

Yeah, I never think of that recipe. Yeah, well, and it was great because cricket.

Speaker 3: 56:47

Very sustainable, hot, you know. Totally digestible, not so it doesn't cause inflammation like traditional meat meat does, and um, but gretta's, gretta's go-to breakfast was Pop-Tarts and Nutella.

Speaker 2: 57:02

Okay, pop-tarts like with Nutella on top of it.

Speaker 3: 57:05

Yes, or like using the Pop-Tarts like a chip and dipping it in there, and oh, we have a fun God story about that too. We were resupplying at a Walmart you know super Walmart that had grocery store and stuff like that yeah, and the only Nutella we could find were these giant tubs of it and it's so heavy and we would always buy like the smallest tub and because we'd have to resupply like every week or 10 days. And so I run around the store looking for like a Walmart clerk, and I find one finally. And I kid you not, he has a Walmart clerk. And I find one finally. And I kid you not, he has a Lilo and Stitch t-shirt on.

Speaker 1: 57:45

Oh, wow, and I'm like you get a picture.

Speaker 3: 57:48

We're good we did. I said, I know this is a weird request, but and I explained to him you know, my name's Stitch, my daughter's Lilo, we're hiking the trail and in, you know know, out there they know about the trail, so, unlike here in the midwest, you usually have to explain to people what the heck it is. And anyway he go. I said I know you probably don't get requests for this a lot, but we want the smallest jar of new chela. Do you have something smaller than this, like pound giant jar? And he said I don't know, I'll go look in the back, let Let me, let me know, let me see. And um, and so he, he went back and then he, he found us and we were looking, we were shopping all over the store and he's carrying this case of small jars of Nutella around, cause he didn't know how many we needed. It was just so sweet, so so sweet yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:36

Anyway, how many people that like came alongside you, like in unexpected ways, it's just well, we we know that we stayed in like 25 people, perfect strangers home, 45 trail angels in in total, you know, helped us along the way. So it was pretty, pretty great, amazing, hey, I'm going to pause here. I see my daughter's walking over and the dogs are going to bark.

Speaker 2: 58:58

Let me pause here. I'll pause the recording. Oh, we were talking about. All right, we're back. We just took a little pause, so back to you, susan.

Speaker 3: 59:08

Yeah well, the, um, yeah, the, the. The people that helped us along the trail were amazing. They'd usually reach out in social media, comment on videos and stuff. People would say stuff like bad weather's coming, it's going to rain or another hurricane's coming. You know, we live close by, let us know when you'd be at this road crossing and we'll come pick you up and get you out of the weather and to resupply and, you know, help you out and get you back on trail the next morning. That was something that just blew our minds and just the kindness of the community along the trail was something that just restores your faith in humanity. Just people, genuinely kind and helping. You know they don't get anything out of it. There's one family they're like. I know you're vegetarian. I've been practicing my masala recipe. You know, please, please, please, come to our house and just like it just was so sweet and so humbling to have you know people help us like that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:12

Well, I would love for you to share and this is going to be super off the cuff. We'll see if you can come up with something. But I just feel led to ask you this and it might sound really random, but I love quotes. I just love quotes. So if we were to quote, have a quotable from your experience I know you mentioned don't quit. You know, basically get up when you fall down, like those are things that are really highlighted to me. But if you were to, like, put something out there that would kind of encompass your experience to pass on to people, what would that quote be?

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

Hmm.

Speaker 3: 1:00:50

You know, when you started talking, what jumped in my brain and my heart was listen for the still small voice of God.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

And it just seems like in our sorry, our busy, crazy, hectic, challenging world to just be able to stop and listen for the voice of God. Yeah, be able to stop and listen for the voice of God?

Speaker 3: 1:01:22

Yeah, and it's. You know, it's always the right thing. It may not be what you want to hear, you may be surprised by it or not understand it, but if you slow down and quiet yourself and listen, that is just so powerful and we were so blessed to have that experience.

Speaker 3: 1:01:43

My favorite picture of the trail, isn't the Grand Mountains, isn't the you know, isn't even the final picture at the end of the hike where we're finishing and all our family and friends there, but it's our daughter, greta and I sitting on a dock on this beautiful mountain lake. And it's late in the day and it's just gorgeous. There isn't another evidence of humanity other than the dock and us sitting there.

Speaker 1: 1:02:13

And it just reminds me that God is ever present and he's there for you. And it's just such a great experience to be able to have witnessed that, lived that shared that.

Speaker 3: 1:02:38

I mean it was tough. There was times it was brutal. There was times we had every piece of clothing on and were soaking, wet, soaked to the bone, uncontrollably shaking hypothermia, and I would do it again in a heartbeat get in a heartbeat.

Speaker 2: 1:03:08

Oh, susan, sure it's amazing. Seriously, I, I, you, have inspired so many people and I just want to re-quote your quote. And for the still small voice of god yeah, we every day have an opportunity to do this, and it's interesting because I even said, you know, I think that it's a lost art to listen in general and, um, sometimes you're actually listening for silence.

Speaker 2: 1:03:29

Yeah, because he doesn't always have something to say to us, and it's okay yeah, but it's those opportunities to be still and know that he's there every step of the way, Like I just love.

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

I just love you and I'm so thankful that you were able to be on today. I know that there's so much more coming your way and I'm sure that we'll have you on another time, but, as you, I do this for the one. This the Lord had me to start the podcast for the one. So is there anything else that you'd want to share with the listener today to encourage them? Any words of wisdom?

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

Obviously, you've shared a lot of words of wisdom here, but anything else that's really on your heart, to encourage this one that's listening today, and then would you pray us out?

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

No thanks. Encourage this one that's listening today. And then would you pray us out, no thanks.

Speaker 3: 1:04:23

Yeah, I think you know for me the kind of the tagline or the takeaway from the trail and what I learned is is identify what is your mountain you know, and, and you know, for it was up and down Mount Everest 16 times and the mountain was doing it and finishing it and raising money, and we had an incredible story, so many generous people, you know people sharing the story. But it all starts with, you know, we talked about purpose and having something that's bigger than yourself, and the other side of that coin is, you know, that's kind of the positive. The other side is, wow, you're up against stuff. You know your mountains, everybody's got mountains. They're big, they're challenging. Sometimes they look impassable, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:05:19

But then comes along somebody that extends a hand and offers to help. Someone says, hey, get out of the rain, I will shelter you. Someone says, you know, I had IT ban, horrible issues toward the end of the trail and people would say let me take your backpack, you don't need to carry it today, you're going to stay at our house tonight. You don't need a sleeping bag, you need emergency stuff and enough for food, and you know that's about 10 pounds. Here's a day pack, here's your bottles of water, here's your water filter system, here's your emergency communication device. Here's your water filter system, here's your emergency communication device. Go head front and Greta would carry all that stuff and I didn't have anything to carry.

Speaker 3: 1:06:12

You know, it was just people that were wiser and could see things that we couldn't see. You know, surround yourself with those, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to say I don't know. Don't be afraid to say you're better at this than I am. You be the leader. It applies in so many different ways and that's one of the many things I loved about the trail is the learning, the opportunity to learn, the opportunity to process that and now to share that.

Speaker 3: 1:06:42

It's just so big, so powerful and you know, I don't want it to be a secret. I don't want God, god doesn't want it to be a secret. I mean, there are just undeniable miracles and witnesses. You know that we can tell stories of how God helped us out. There's no way that, you know, a 66 year old, non-athletic, short, you know klutzy person could do that trail without the miracles of God. You know, no way. No way. I mean, I was walking the dogs yesterday. I rolled my ankle and fell a second time, and it wasn't even on the bad ankle. I don't know. I mean, I was walking the dogs yesterday. I rolled my ankle and fell a second time, and it wasn't even on the bad ankle. I don't know. I don't know why I fell. I just to the ground. You know that's not someone who's a trail runner, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:07:31

But now I loved it when you said it. I can be a trail guide. Yeah, take what I've learned and share it, and I really encourage others to share it too. This isn't something that has to be just me. Our YouTube videos are out there. We had people tell us oh, they're inspiring, it's better than TV. Our kids can watch it, we don't have to worry about you know, what's going to be said or what's going to be on.

Speaker 3: 1:07:59

We were goofy, we were silly. We made up songs. You know I have a horrible voice, but sometimes Greta even made me sing by myself.

Speaker 2: 1:08:07

You know it's like the freedom right. Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3: 1:08:13

And you know not everybody, I know, you know even I will probably never get that opportunity again. But it doesn't mean I have to stop hiking. It doesn't mean I can't take the dog for a walk up and down the road. You know I can go to the marsh, we can listen to the birds, we can see the deer, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

We can pick up a new trail. You're blazing new trails right Every day every day you know.

Speaker 3: 1:08:50

Look for those opportunities and, along the way, be a trail angel and help someone else.

Speaker 2: 1:08:55

You know it's. It's so easy to do and it makes such an impact. Yes, Well, susan, you are amazing. I so thankful that you came on today. What would be the best way for listeners to contact you? I'll be sure to put your YouTube channel in the show notes. But if they want to reach out to you, maybe for speaking or you know questions about your experience.

Speaker 3: 1:09:13

What would be, the best way for them to contact you yeah, I think my email address, um susan, at susan otten presentscom and that's url for my website, so they can. Um, it's, yeah, and that would be great. If you know others that you know want or need to hear this story, um, I'd love to hear from you and if there's any ways I can help with coaching, or you know, it's one thing to hear it and then, and if there's any ways I can help with coaching or you know it's one thing to hear it and then go. Oh, yeah, right, you know that worked for you. That's not going to work for us, or our organization or our church or our this or all that. Well, it it might. You know, and maybe maybe there's a way I can help with that, maybe there's a way a second set of eyes coming in from the outside can have different vision and clarity to be able to help problem solve or strategize. So be willing to help in any way I can.

Speaker 2: 1:10:07

Awesome. Well, I will be sure to put your information in the show notes. I'm going to close with the anchoring verse for Hope, unlocked it's. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope, and that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you for being a brave voice who's setting many, many free. I said many is free, many free. I appreciate you sharing today and I will be back with another episode next week. Thank you, susan. Thank you so much.