Helping Others Heal—and Finding Restoration Herself with Kathryn Lichty

Christian counselor Kathryn Lichty, founder of One Hope Counseling, shares a powerful journey of listening prayer, inner healing, and faith-led obedience. Kathryn opens up about leaving a secular counseling agency to build a practice rooted in hearing God’s voice—confirmed through Scripture, signs, and timely encouragement. This episode explores trauma, parts work, taking thoughts captive, and releasing shame in exchange for truth. Kathryn also shares vulnerable testimony around prophetic promises, praying through uncertainty, and marital restoration after infidelity, revealing how confession, accountability, and grace rebuild trust and bring lasting healing.

Kathryn's contact info:

Email - kathryn@onehopecounseling.com

Website - https://onehopecounseling.clientsecure.me

Substack - https://substack.com/@lookingupwithhope? 

🎙️Hope Unlocked Listener Exclusive! Feeling stirred but not sure what to do next? Book a 45-minute Holy Spirit-led 1:1 coaching session w/ Hope Unlocked host Kristin Kurtz, founder of New Wings Coaching. This powerful conversation will help you move from stirred to activated—with peace, clarity, & a Spirit-led next step. Book your call HERE now–special pricing to listeners!

Chapters

• 0:16 Welcome And Mission Of Hope
• 1:03 Meet Catherine: Family And Work
• 2:11 Leaving Agency And Faith Tension
• 4:17 Signs, Eagles, And Crossroads
• 6:46 Founding One Hope Counseling
• 9:20 Coaching Vision And Parts Work
• 12:44 Learning To Hear God’s Voice
• 15:04 Psalm 91 And Intercession
• 17:49 Youth, Church, And Mentorship
• 19:49 Trauma Work And Inner Healing
• 22:14 Thoughts, Shame, And Renewal
• 24:50 Conviction, Confession, And Mercy
• 27:49 Rebuilding Trust And Forgiveness
• 30:09 Encouragement, Calling, And Prayer

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to NewWinksCoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Catherine Lictee to the show. So excited to have her here today. She is a friend of a friend. Her name is Judy. Thank you, Judy, for connecting us. I cannot wait to hear more about Catherine's story. And before we get into that, would you be open to sharing a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12

Of course. So um, yeah, my name is Catherine Lictee, and I have been married to Darren for almost 33 years. Um it's pretty amazing. The first nine years worked hard. Yeah. Um, and together we have two grown children and four grandsons aging um nine all the way down to one. And they're certainly a huge blessing. Oh, how fun.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43

Are they are they local? Like nearby, you get to see them.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46

Our daughter lives in town, and our son is only about an hour and a half away. So how exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53

I love those. I can't imagine. Boys are so fun, aren't they? I have two boys. Well, they're not boys now, but I think boys are pretty special. I would agree. I'm a little partial, I guess you could say. So um tell us a little bit more about what you're doing these days.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11

Um, I am a Christian counselor. I have One Hope Counseling in Alexandria. What's the name, by the way? Oh just the the story of how One Hope Counseling came to be is really pretty neat. And actually, maybe I'll just back way up. So I had gone to school for social work and um absolutely loved working as a social worker. Um, I've been a social worker for my whole career, with the exception of two years where I did in-home daycare, and I thought, well, that's not fun anymore. So that's not fair to anyone. And so I'm been working as a social worker and about 15, I don't know, more than that years ago, I went back to school and got my master's degree in social work and um began working for a community mental health agency in Alexandria. And that was I learned so much. I truly learned so much. Um but there came a time where I just felt like that wasn't where I was supposed to be. Um and I it it got, I don't know, uncomfortable. There was uh a couple of times where I had um, I'll say been reported to my supervisor for bringing God into sessions. Um and I thought, well, I haven't been doing anything different than I had for the previous four and a half years. Um but it was truly, I believe, the Lord saying, This isn't where you're meant to be, this isn't where I want you to be. So I really didn't know where I was gonna be going. I I knew I would be leaving that agency, and it it was amazing while I was there. Um but I went um on a fishing trip with our church, fishing camping trip um up to Lake of the Woods and was praying about how to leave uh on good terms, and um I got done praying and I looked up and there was this eagle flying overhead. And of course, there's eagles all over the place up there, I'm sure, but it just gave me a great sense of peace. Yeah, and what I actually did um was found a rock from the shore on a beach and painted it and gave it to my supervisor. And uh I I wrote on there my first stone because you know there had been some we I butted heads with him sometimes, but but that was a kind of a pattern and um like authority, it was challenging. And I remember getting ready for work one morning. Um, I was still at that agency and and so clearly heard the Lord tell me, How are you ever going to submit to the ultimate authority if you are unwilling to submit to the authorities I have placed above you on earth? Oh wow, like that gave me a different perspective. It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02: 5:43

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 5:45

Yeah. So I knew I was going to be leaving that agency, did so on really good terms. And um, but so also on this camping trip, there was uh another um another parishioner who was uh director of another agency in town, and we were on kitchen duty together. She said, How are you doing, Catherine? I said, Good. Um work's been a little challenging because it had been. Um and she said that her agency was hiring. So I went back home and I'm forgetting about the rainbows. There wasn't there was a whole thing with rainbows, too. But um I went back home the following day and called that agency that she worked for and found out that the director is actually an old coworker of mine. So I thought, well, I could have a job there. But as I hung up the phone, I had the thought go through my mind where I really want to be is Crossroads. Um Crossroads Counseling was an agency that was based in Wilmer and there was a branch office in Alexandria.

unknown: 6:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 6:59

So I left a voicemail for the director, the owner, and he called me back and said he was intrigued by my message because the woman who was in the Alexandria office was leaving and he didn't know what he was going to do to keep the office open. Oh, wow. That was pretty cool. And he told me uh he'd be in Alexandria the following Monday to speak at celebrate recovery. He asked if I would send him my resume and a letter of calling that just outlined my walk with Christ and um my what led me into the field of counseling. So, of course, I would do that. But that evening, uh, I went to Walmart and was looking for something, happened to stop by one of those bins with books in it. And right next to my hip was a book called Crossroads, which of course I bought. I always say, Stop it. It's so cool. Wow. And then the next day, I went with my daughter to Joanne Fabric to get some things for her um wedding reception. Walked in, and here was a sign that said, You'll never leave where you are at until you know where you want to be. It's like, I'm listening more. Can you read that again? I think somebody needs to do that again. You bet. Um, you'll never leave where you are at until you know where you want to be. That's so good. Yeah. So then over the weekend, I did my resume and letter of calling and emailed it. Um, checked on Monday morning to see if I'd gotten a response and realized I had sent it like to the wrong email address, you know, dot com.net. So confusing. So I resent it. Yeah. Um, and that day I walked home for lunch. And I, you know, you know, normally you go this way all the time. But this particular day, I'm like, I think I'll take this road or this street. And halfway down the block, the rest of the sidewalk was filled with sidewalk chalk rainbows.

SPEAKER_00: 9:14

It was so cool. Oh my gosh, that's what you were referencing the other day. Okay. Oh my goodness. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 9:22

And then um that night I went to celebrate recovery, heard him speak, and there were a couple times where I thought, oh, he must have gotten that from from what I wrote. Well, that too. How cool is that? Um, and the first thing he said to me after stating his name was that he was sorry, but he hadn't had a chance to read through my stuff. So that was that was pretty neat. Wow. Wow. So that's that's the change from one agency over to crossroads counseling.

SPEAKER_00: 9:56

Um and it was like God totally like ordered your steps there. It was amazing. Thank you. I always say you can't make this stuff up, right?

SPEAKER_01: 10:44

Right. Yep. Wow. And then and then uh uh was with Crossroads for five years uh or seven years. It was seven years, and um he made the decision, the owner made the decision to sell the agency to another agency. And I had actually been taking part in a paperwork catch up group because uh, like many therapists, um, I had gotten way behind on paperwork. I shall not admit just how far behind I was. Um, but uh it was really a wonderful investment and was already getting my paperwork in order, that kind of thing. But I had shared with my group there that the owner had made the decision to sell. And somebody said, Why don't you just go out on your own? Uh so I prayed about it. Uh, but because I was so busy doing paperwork in every spare moment, I told the Lord, if you want me to do this, then you're gonna have to come up with a name because I don't have time to think about it. Oh, oh, and it has to have the word hope in it. So I went back to doing paperwork, and then the next day um one hope counseling came to mind. And I just looked up and I'm like, okay, I'll do it. I'm gonna do it. Um yeah, it's really neat. I shared my my plans with my husband that night, and he said, I don't know, the name doesn't really ring for me. I said, Well, God gave it to me, so it's not changing. Yes. But then the next morning I was getting ready and uh the song on the on Spotify was Hope Darst singing Hold on to Hope and Don't Let Go. My new devotional was about hope. And then I got in the car to go to town, and Phil Wickham was singing Living Hope. So, like Yeah, it's been blessed. It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Yeah, you you probably didn't need any more confirmations by that time. I love it. Um, you know, it's it's so amazing, you know, to kind of look back and you know, to have somebody ask you that question that sparked something in you, right? Um could you just go a little deeper with that? Because, you know, just in the work that I do and the work that you do, um, I'm sure you're asking a lot of questions as well, and it really can pull things from people and kind of make you go, hmm, I've never considered that before. Because had you considered that ever before?

SPEAKER_01: 13:30

I I had, and um, I knew that I wasn't ready to go into private practice. So um it was always, you know, a maybe someday kind of thing. Um but even then when my group member asked, I really like I was physically and emotionally tired. And so I didn't know that I could take on opening up a practice and setting that up. But with God, of course, all things are possible, right?

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

Yes, yes, and how many years ago was this?

SPEAKER_01: 14:07

Um, I've had one hope counseling for about three and a half years, okay, and I sense a uh nudge to go in another direction, continue the Christian counseling, you know, um, but expand into um coaching that would allow me to help people connect with God through prayer and to also um connect with their different parts inside of them, like we all have parts. There's actually a book called We All Have Parts. Um, there's like our true self, which is the essence of God in us, and then there's like parts of us that hold wounding from the past or shame or helplessness. And then, of course, we don't want to feel those things. So there's protector parts that develop or they take on these protective roles. There might be manager parts that are like, we're gonna do everything we possibly can to make sure that Catherine doesn't ever have to feel helpless or out of control. And so then, you know, might be overfunctioning or perfectionism. Um and there's reactive protectors that are like, well, the managers aren't doing a very good job. We've got to swoop in and you know, squash those emotions. So that can be kind of destructive. But so when I was, I had a uh like a I'll say a discovery call or a call um with um a Christian coaching academy. As I was sitting down at on my couch to talk with this man, there was an eagle right out my back window. And then when I was listening to your podcasts while driving, it was like so many eagle sightings.

SPEAKER_00: 16:05

I just feel his leading. Yes, eagles are the best. I love that we have that connection. They just, it's so funny. I've had people say, How do you see eagles so much? And I said, Well, your first step is you gotta look up.

SPEAKER_01: 16:18

I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:20

Don't be looking at your phone all the time when you're outside. Um, but yeah, I love that you got, you know, this massive confirmation then too, because I mean, would you say when you're shifting or transitioning, um, you know, I know for some they just they just move in it, but um, it's so reassuring to get these, like, I feel like they're massive god winks and like little hugs from heaven that just reassure you that yes, you're you're taking the right step. And I've got you, right?

SPEAKER_01: 16:51

Do you feel like as well? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 16:55

Yeah. So what does it look like for you? Um, you know, I'm just kind of curious, kind of going back a little bit. I know for some who um are transitioning maybe out of, you know, like for me, I was working in a corporate environment for, you know, 20 years to leave that quote unquote safe space. Um, you know, my coaching business opened, it'll be eight years this month, which is crazy. But um, you know, leaving a quote unquote safe job to transition to doing something, you know, full time on my own. What what did it look like for you in the beginning? Did you have advisors? Did you have what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01: 17:34

I'll say it was a little chaotic. Yeah. What was the most chaotic?

SPEAKER_00: 17:40

The most what? The most chaotic. Like what was most chaotic for you?

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

Oh, making sure that you know, being credentialed with insurance companies and getting all of your forms in in order and um not knowing what you're doing. But yeah, there's people out there who are are skilled and have that knowledge and are willing to answer questions and yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 18:07

Well, what would you what have you loved most about um having your own practice?

SPEAKER_01: 18:12

Oh I love seeing light bulbs come on. I love seeing healing taking place in real time. Like one of one of one of my favorite things is helping people connect with the Lord and maybe teaching them how to not just pray to him, but to listen for his voice. And um like so many times people are taught to pray, you know, like, come Lord Jesus be our guest, let these gifts to us be blessed. Amen. Yeah, yeah. Or even uh, Lord, please be with so-and-so, or guide the doctor's hands, that kind of thing. But we don't take the time to listen for his voice. And when we can recognize it uh or think about it as a conversation, um to ask him questions and sit and and simply wait for a response and like asking, what lie am I believing about myself? Or what is the truth I need to believe about myself? Yes. One of my favorite questions for people to ask is, Lord, what are you what are some of your favorite things about me?

SPEAKER_00: 19:36

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:39

And what is your favorite name to call me?

SPEAKER_00: 19:42

Oh well, what does he say to you for both questions? What's your favorite thing he said to you, like for both of those questions?

SPEAKER_01: 19:53

Well, um and one of them was that I'm compassionate. Oh and I am his beloved daughter. That's his favorite name to call me. Oh I have to tell you, um, like we can hear his voice. I think there are a lot of people who feel like they can't hear his voice. Um, I think sometimes we have so much noise, yeah, and our thoughts can be so scattered that it can be hard to focus inward. And sometimes we have an enemy who wants to disturb that process. But I I believe that if we can hear the voice of the enemy, we can hear the voice of the Lord too. Yes. Um There have been times where I have felt like I've audibly heard his voice. But there was one time um I was meeting with uh a woman who was trying to decide um with her husband if it would be safe to like go through fertility treatments and um had some appointments coming up and just a lot of uncertainty. And as I was praying to close our session, I clearly heard, or thought I did anyway, she will become pregnant within a year. And I was so excited, but I'm like, oh my goodness, what if I'm wrong? What if I have heard that wrong? I didn't feel brave enough or courageous enough to share it with her, but I made a note in her chart. And then um we we finished working together shortly after that. And then so that was in um February or March of whatever year it was, and then so it was a February, and she called the following March to request um uh to work with me again. Oh, and she shared that she was about six weeks pregnant with twins. Oh my gosh. I'm like, I have to get out my notes from before, and I shared that with her, and it was like such a confirmation that when when you think you might have heard his voice, you probably did, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 22:14

Yeah, if you could like even just say that again, I I think it's worth repeating.

SPEAKER_01: 22:19

Like, you know if you think you've heard from the Lord, you probably have, it's probably not your own thoughts, yeah, you know, coming up with this stuff. And sometimes like it's stuff that I wouldn't have come up on with on my own.

SPEAKER_00: 22:36

So exactly. And would you say too, I I feel like I've heard previously, I don't remember who it was that that touted this, but like if it's encouraging, if it's something that's edifying, um, and it like is kind of outside of something that you would like you can't make this stuff up kind of thing, right? Yeah, would you say that that would be something that you'd want to lean into and and share? I mean, I have times like that too, where it's like I'm getting this question or I'm getting this vision or I'm getting something for people, and it ends up being, you know, it's like a word of knowledge, right? It's it's prophetic and it's it's from him. Um have you ever withheld something before that um I don't know, not that you would withhold it, but have you had any other times too where it's like you kind of question, am I hearing?

SPEAKER_01: 23:26

Well, I learned after that that if I sense him sharing something, then I can be confident that it's truly his voice. And yes, it it's very encouraging to others to share those things. Yes, yes. And then of course there are times when people say I don't hear anything or I don't sense anything, and that's okay. You know, even I I will have times where I'm in prayer and don't feel like I'm getting much of a response.

unknown: 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:59

It's okay. Yeah, and I like like you said, like just to reiterate that it is okay. Um, I think would you say though, if you're not hearing anything for an extended period of time, like what would you say to somebody who's maybe it's been a long time and they're like, I'm just not hearing anything? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01: 24:18

I might encourage them to uh schedule a coaching session with Kristen Kurtz or Catherine Lichte.

SPEAKER_00: 24:26

That I mean, it's it's it's good, right? But is there something that you feel um would really help somebody to even kind of if they were to be on their own, you know, if somebody's on their own and they're just really feeling it's almost like a a blockage, they feel blocked. Um, besides distractions, because our world is so full of distractions, we have to be so diligent to, you know, get away like Jesus did, right?

SPEAKER_01: 24:56

We do, we do need to get away um and spend time with him. And I am he may not speak audibly, it may be through the pages of his word or um you know, even Googling things like scripture for when I'm having a hard time letting go of something, and then just scroll through the the um the things that come up, the verses, and maybe there's gonna be a verse that just jumps off the screen, like that's it. That's what I needed to hear. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 25:38

So I I mean he is he is so I feel like even just in the word, like this morning I went on this little word search. I have a keyword study bible. I don't know if you've heard of it before, but um it just takes you deeper into the text with the like basically takes you into strong concordance in the back. And um, it's just really cool to go deeper with him in that way. And sometimes there's like these little surprises that are brought to the surface because you go deeper, you're you're digging deeper than just a quick devotional, right? For sure. What is your favorite verse?

SPEAKER_01: 26:16

Um, well, all of some Psalm 91 actually. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00: 26:21

Wow. That's that was very pivotal for me during like 2020, 2021. Did you have that one on quote unquote repeat?

SPEAKER_01: 26:31

Um Psalm 91 is meaningful because there was a time when my son was in a dangerous situation. Um, and I didn't know what was going on, but I had prayed, tried to go to sleep, couldn't fall asleep, but kept praying. And then clearly heard in my mind Psalm 91. So I got out of bed and looked it up. At the time I did not know that it was a psalm of protection. So for two and a half hours, I read through it, prayed, basically had it memorized, and then clearly heard you can go back to bed now. And I did, and I slept soundly, and then about a year later, my son and I had a chance to talk about that night, and he shared that he truly had been in a dangerous situation, and um the timing was exactly from when I heard Psalm 91 to when you can go back to bed now. Um and and then he was out of that situation, so that's the power of intercessory prayer.

SPEAKER_00: 28:01

Yes, yes, yes. You're you're an intercessor, right? I must be, huh? Oh my goodness, it was amazing. Yeah. And it's and as even as a mama too, I feel like um he'll often give us, you know, if we're listening, if we're paying attention, um, you know, I've had moments too where it's like uh you may not see something on the other end, but I'll get these nudges where it's like, pray now, you know, and like something will come to mind, or it's my kids or my husband or other family or friends, and it's like, okay, I'm praying. And I'll even see license plates with 911 a lot. And that's my little indication when I'm out driving. Um, it might sound silly, but he speaks to me through like license plates and billboards and sides of cars and pretty much everything. Um, but when I see 911, I'm I'm always like, it's definitely like almost like an emergency call to prayer for something.

SPEAKER_01: 29:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:05

Do you see that too? Well, I know that I'll get goosebumps when we're onto something, like Holy Spirit's nudge that says, you're on to something here, you know. Um so I wouldn't suggest that just because a person gets goosebumps, that's what's going on, but it's happened often enough that I really just sense an affirmation of the direction that we're heading.

SPEAKER_00: 29:32

Yes. Well, how like how did you come to know the Lord? Like, were you real young?

SPEAKER_01: 29:38

Um grew up in a Christian home and um like many, uh, I was baptized as an infant, and then um my mom worked at a Baptist church when I was in elementary school, and um we I went through a little class, I must have been in second or third grade little class um about immersion. And um I I recall now looking back, you know, hoping and thinking I was giving the right answers. And I know my heart was in it at the level it could be at the time. Um, but uh it was like going to church and learning about God, learning the stories of the Bible, but I didn't really understand how the Bible applied to my real life. Um it was pretty cool because when our son was must have been the summer after fifth or sixth grade, uh, we had a youth pastor move in next door. Yeah, and they started, he befriended our son and invited him to church. And like our son really didn't enjoy attending the church we were going to at the time. Okay. Um, so we let him go to church at this other uh church in town, and he would come home as a you know 12-year-old, excited to talk about the sermons. So um I was on the praise and worship team uh at the time, and my husband and I decided that the next Sunday I had off from singing, we would go visit that church. And then we went again the next Sunday I had off. And like part way through the service, Darren had looked at me and said, we really should learn more about this, you know, particular denomination. And uh the pastor got up at the end of the service and gave announcements then. And he said, if any of you would like to learn more about, um and he invited, you know, there were probably 15 of us that stuck around after the service to learn more about this particular denomination. So I feel like that was when I really started to learn how the Bible was uh applicable to my day-to-day life, and I really it was a really neat process. And and then later at another church, they did these corporate small group studies where um the whole church would be studying the same material, meeting in people's homes. The pastors would do their sermons based on that. Uh one of them was uh 30 days to understanding the Bible. And that helped me learn how to navigate my Bible. Um, and then the next year it was called Not a Fan. I think that's by Kyle Eidelman. Okay. Could have that wrong. Yeah. Um, not a fan, which is basically, you know, if you're a fan of someone, you might be able to rattle off all the statistics and the games that they've won and that kind of thing. But there's really no relationship there. I can be a fan of um some famous football player, but if I showed up at the party that he was at, he wouldn't know me, even if I knew every little detail about every play he ever made. So then the next year, the study was called Um Follow Me by David Platt. And that there was something that clicked inside of me with that study. It was like, I get it now. My my whole purpose is to be a disciple, making disciples.

SPEAKER_00: 33:45

So yes. Wow. So you've had you've had quite a journey, and and did your kids end up staying like fired up um throughout like even being in high school and such?

SPEAKER_01: 33:57

Yeah. Tyler, uh our son had some like straying away and then coming back, straying away, coming back, like the prodigal son. Yeah, yeah. He returned. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:09

Well, you know, I'm I'm curious, like even with our kids too, like I'm just kind of thinking of um, you know, typical church, you would bring your kids and they would go to like, you know, the childcare, the youth groups. And um, is there anything that you're seeing like in this day and age that um I I I know that there is like a revival fire that's really brewing for the younger generation. Um, is there anything that you um just sense like he's doing in in this generation? How we could even partner as parents and relatives, you know, people in the church to help these kids really have a solid foundation.

SPEAKER_01: 34:52

I think relationship within the church is so important, or uh that uh young people have older people, wiser people who truly care about them and what's going on in their lives, who are willing and able to take the time to spend with them, listen to their stories, and just be interested. We're all so, so busy. And um I think it's it's so valuable to take the time to get to know um one another and just be a solid source of support. Like parents can't be everything to their kids. So it's so helpful to have other adults in their lives, and it can be other adults who help them know who God is and how God sees them. I mean, that's huge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:50

I mean, I can only imagine like how many kids, you know, I I I really love going deep with, you know, identity and such, you know, identity, destiny, all the things. And um, gosh, I I can only imagine like how many kids, if that were to be like fostered at a younger age, yeah, how impactful that would be on their lives.

SPEAKER_01: 36:11

I would agree. I something I see on social media, which I can be on too much sometimes, but there's there's a lot of young people who are like speaking truth and um sharing what the Lord is doing in their lives. So that's really encouraging.

SPEAKER_00: 36:28

It is, yeah. I'm seeing more like rising up, right? Um, even some people that I know that are younger, and I'm like, wow, like it's incredible to see what God is doing through them. So well, what are you like, what are you offering these days? What are you um if somebody was interested in like working with you, what would that look like?

SPEAKER_01: 36:52

I mainly work with adults, um, some couples, and um a lot of times, you know, there might be a history of trauma or stressful things going on in their lives. And um I just try to be um genuine, yeah, um compassionate and I I I guess maybe it's weird to say, but um, working with trauma is kind of fun. Um and but again, to see the healing and the restoration that takes place in my clients is so rewarding and yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:41

So would you say that um so it's interesting because I was just having a quick conversation with somebody today and she was just wondering, like, you know, who I work with um specifically, would you say that you would work um in essence, even in the coaching space? Because you can kind of go back and forth, right? Um with more like trauma, like helping people through trauma and like inner healing as well.

SPEAKER_01: 38:05

I would imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:08

Okay. Um, because it's so, I mean, gosh, there's so many people that need. I mean, I'm I'm still healing. There's things that I'm healing from. So for anybody out there is like, oh my gosh, like uh like I just want to like you know, remove shame from anybody who, you know, would you speak into that maybe a little bit? So I think shame can be something that can come for people quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01: 38:30

Shame can be like uh a heavy wet blanket that is like draped over the person's shoulders, and it is this incredibly heavy burden to have to carry. But we don't have to carry it, yeah. But we have to learn that we don't have to carry it, you know. Sometimes it's been placed on us and it's just the way it is. Um like you should feel bad about yourself or you should be ashamed. And like, what were you thinking? Those things are uh they're like the voice of shame. Yes. Like there is no condemnation in Christ. No. Yeah. Like we can one thing I am really and um have found helpful when when I will have like I'll say oppressive thoughts or intrusive thoughts, or how could you be so dumb, Catherine? Like I I take my hand and like make a physical gesture away from my head, like get out of my head. You know, like nope, I'm not gonna let myself think like that. And just the the repetition of that has helped. Like, nope, not gonna go there. And so that can help.

SPEAKER_00: 39:52

That is so good because I don't know about you, but I don't even know how long ago it was. How many, how many thoughts are we having a day that are negative? Do you know the statistics? It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01: 40:03

I heard something that we have like 52,000 thoughts in a day, but I don't remember how many are negative.

SPEAKER_00: 40:09

Like I wouldn't I would say I think it's like half of them are negative. Like they're trying to negatively inspire us, quote unquote. Right? Like that makes sense. So I just thought, gosh, if I could just make them all go away, that'd be great. Well, that's not gonna happen. Like I I think the biggest thing, and we we're supposed to take our thoughts captive, right? Right. So there are gonna be these intrusive thoughts. That are just gonna come. Um like it'd be great to have like antspray and just make them all go away. But I don't think that is possible, this side of heaven, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01: 40:51

You know, I wanna talk about condemnation versus conviction. Yeah. Because condemnation comes from our enemy. Conviction comes from the Holy Spirit. Um I I'll I'll share about the first time I was truly, truly convicted, and I know it was Holy Spirit who was moving. So um I grew up in a Lutheran church, and like the Green Lutheran book of worship, um, it has liturgy, and I I didn't connect to the liturgy. And um after we were married, we joined a small Lutheran church, and you know, again, it was like it didn't really mean much of anything to me, the liturgy. Um, but one day um after the third or fourth time of being unfaithful to my husband, we sang the offeratory response create in me a clean heart, oh God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your holy spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and uphold me with your free spirit. And I just remember uh I went up to the balcony, or maybe I was already sitting on the balcony, and I just wept because for the first time I felt such guilt and shame. And like I made a vow, I was never gonna do that again. Um and although I was not successful in keeping that vow on my own, uh, I later was moved by Holy Spirit to confess and seek forgiveness, which he freely gave, and it was never brought up again. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 42:57

I mean, looking back, how many how many years ago did you walk through this?

SPEAKER_01: 43:02

Sure. Um the infidelity was in our first like four years of marriage. Okay, and I don't know, not not often, not many times, but yeah, um I I had um experienced, I'll I'll just go back a little bit. Um I had issues with depression and um was thinking about things kids say because sometimes it's really funny. Like when our our son was really little, he had said like about a flock of blackbirds. Look, mom, they're playing tag. Um that's cute. I petted a bird at daycare today, and like, oh really? Yeah, it was dead and its eyes were all bugged out. But there was a time, um, again, this was early on in our marriage, and I was depressed and harsh. I could be verbally abusive. I know that. Um, and after one particularly harsh moment with him, I think he was about three and a half years old, he said, Why don't you crumple me up and throw me away? That was my like, I knew then I needed to get some help. And so I I sought out some counseling and got on uh medication, and that all helped. It it truly helped. But there came a time when I was able to receive some prayer counseling, and uh truly that was the most redemptive of all. Um this this lady led me through the process of forgiving, forgiving those who had uh hurt me in the past, um and um also like cleaning house, so to speak. Like if we are if we are with uh someone physically who is not our spouse, we can think about like how we have given a piece of ourselves to that person, or that it's been taken from us, because that certainly happened. So um she she walked me through the process of restoring uh my house with my husband. Like Lord, give give back to all those people anything that doesn't belong in Catherine's relationship with her husband and restore to her all the things that were either taken from her or that she gave away. But as she was praying that the things that didn't belong in in our marriage would be returned to their rightful owners, I felt a physical whooshing sensation through my chest wall. And that was incredibly freeing. Um I later told her that I wanted to learn how to do what she did. And she said, Oh, I'm starting a class in six weeks. So yeah, it was pretty cool. Um so I started that with another group of people, and um, and of course, you do your own work, you work with each other, and wow, it was it was truly amazing. And it was through that that uh class that um they encouraged me to confess my infidelity because I'm like, oh, what he doesn't know won't hurt him. But uh they were they were pretty insistent. No, he needs to know. So they began praying, but um there was a time when Darren and I were talking about how much our marriage had improved, and like things were going so much better. Like I said, our first nine years were pretty hard. Um and I blurted out, yeah, and we don't even have any secrets between us. Like, okay, well, that was clearly Holy Spirit convicting me. I went back to that group and said, Okay, I am convicted. I need to tell him. Um, they started praying, and um, Darren and I happened there was a marriage retreat coming up, so we enrolled in it. And um, part of the, you know, there's sessions during the day and then a workbook that you do, and he'd do dinner each night, and you talk about your workbook questions. Okay. And one of the questions was, or one of the discussion topics was confess any secrets you've been keeping. So I was able to say, you know, hey Darren, like early on in our marriage, there was this time, and he said, I forgive you right away. And I said, and then there was this other time, and he said, I forgive you. Wow, and well, there was this other time. He said, Catherine, I forgive you. Wow. And like I said, he has never brought it up again, and it like it's just he redeemed that, the Lord redeemed that.

SPEAKER_00: 48:32

I mean, we know, like from people we know in just our world, that that is very unusual.

SPEAKER_01: 48:39

Right, right, but marriages can heal from infidelity, yes. There has to be accountability and ownership, like godly sorrow for the harm that was caused.

SPEAKER_00: 48:57

Yes. Have you have you now been able to walk either like couples or or men and women through um, you know, situation that you've also walked through as well and seen the redemption side?

SPEAKER_01: 49:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 49:13

Yeah. I know like you're probably similar to me, but um very confidential. Is there kind of a very vague um testimonial that you'd be able to share that would um because I just think it's beautiful, like what you've walked through. A lot of times we get to turn around. I I like to say I'm kind of a pit polar, the things that I was in the pit with. In the pits, I get to turn around and be like, all right, I'm out, I'm going back for you. Um, is that something you're able to share?

SPEAKER_01: 49:46

I think just the idea of seeing in the community people I've worked with walked through that exact situation with, and to see them still together, happily together, yeah, given. Yeah. The forgiveness piece is huge. Um but it is a difficult journey to travel because trust has to be rebuilt so many times. Like for my situation, you know, the last time had been uh four or five years previous to that. And um, and we we renewed our vows after that, and we just invited the Lord into our marriage at that time. But to see, you know, marriages that have been healed, some of them are still in a healing process. This yeah, betrayal hurts people.

SPEAKER_00: 50:49

Well, thank you for for walking with people. I think it's so important, you know, when you're walking through really challenging things to to not hide, to have somebody that you can, you know, share what you're going through, a tr a trusted person.

SPEAKER_02: 51:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 51:06

Um, sometimes it needs to be a neutral person. Maybe you have trusted friends, you know, people at church in your small group, um, that you can, you know, confess, of course, confess with the Lord, you know, have him, you know, like you said, these these prayers that um it's the listening and the going back and forth. Um, like what would you say to somebody about you know the tendency to hide? Did you have a a thought like that?

SPEAKER_01: 51:34

I think for you, sure. The uh the tendency to hide comes from shame, the emotion of shame. Um and you know, we can quote unquote act opposite to our emotions. Like if we're afraid of something, we can approach what we're afraid of, or if we're upset with someone, we can be a little nice to them. Um, but with shame, we have to determine is the shame, does it make sense to be feeling shame about this particular thing? And like for infidelity, sure. It makes sense to feel shame and guilt, but there's no healing if you stay in that place. So being honest and open with people you can trust, um, confessing where it's appropriate to do that, and um just allowing healing to take place in you and in the relationship can be so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 52:34

Yes. Well, Catherine, you have been such an amazing guest today. I'm so thankful for the work that you're doing for the ways that he's moved in your life. Um, I would love for you to share with where people can find you and contact you and work with you if they're led to.

SPEAKER_01: 52:53

You bet. Um info at one hope counseling.com um or info at lookingupwithhope.com. Um that is kind of the umbrella for the coaching, and I'm writing a book for parents who have an estranged adult child. Okay. Umnehope counseling.com is the main website right now at this time.

SPEAKER_02: 53:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 53:24

Um, I do believe that people have a calling on their life. And like every single one of us, there is a reason that we're here. And if he, if the Lord has not already made it clear, like I believe that all of the things that we've gone through, all the pain, all the trials, will be used for our good and his glory if we allow them to be like everyone's life has value and meaning and purpose. Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 54:00

Well, I I was gonna ask you if you could get, you know, this one person in mind that's listening in today, um, if you had any other words of wisdom or encouragement. I think you shared it, but is there anything else that you'd want to speak to this one who's tuning in today?

SPEAKER_01: 54:16

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00: 54:18

And then would you pray us out?

SPEAKER_01: 54:19

I would love to. Yeah. I think remember that there's no condemnation in Christ. There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Everything can be used for good, for our glory, you know, our growth and God's glory, if we let it. There is a calling and a purpose on your life. Your life has value and meaning, and you are deeply and profoundly loved. Lord God, we are so grateful that we have the privilege of coming into your presence like this. Thank you for Kristen's um idea to have this podcast. Um, and I pray that it reaches many, many listeners and that lives are changed, that there is hope instilled in places where there's otherwise darkness and despair.

SPEAKER_02: 55:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 55:20

I pray that you would bring eagles into um people's line of sight, have them look up and see you, but also look up and see eagles and rainbows and just be inspired and feel hope. So we love you, we honor you, and we give you the glory in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 55:42

Amen. Thank you so much. I'm gonna close with our anchoring verse. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you for being a brave voice who's setting so many free. I will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, Catherine. Thank you.