One Couple. One Calling. One Walk Across America. with Rick & Jane McKinney

After decades in pastoral ministry, Rick and Jane McKinney share an honest story of calling, resilience, and continuing to say yes to Jesus. From a faith awakening during the Jesus movement and a 52-year marriage that began with a tangerine Lifesaver to a heart diagnosis that sparked a defining encounter with God, their journey is filled with courage and redemption. They also unpack servant leadership, practical evangelism, creativity as ministry, and the life-changing walk across America that became a book.

Rick & Jane's contact info: 

Email - rickandjanemckinney@gmail.com

Website - sharingjesus.info

Facebook groups - Jane's Creations, Old Hippy Woodworking, Silver Reimagined

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🔑 MORE FROM YOUR HOST, KRISTIN KURTZ

📖 BOOK: FIT FOR THE CALL
Prepare body, soul & spirit for what God has entrusted to you.
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Transcript

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ReLight Launch And Host Welcome

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Before we jump into today's episode, I want to tell you about ReLight. ReLight is a brand new web and mobile app, one without distractions of social scrolling and chat. If you're a content creator, coach, mentor, writer, author, teacher, or leader, ReLight gives you a dedicated space to capture what God is speaking, organize your content, and share it with those you lead. Ready to create and share God notes with your followers? As a special launch welcome, sign up is free through September 1st, 2026. Visit ReLight.com to get started today. That's spelled R-E-L-I-H-T. No G. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Rick and Jane McKinney to the show. So excited to have them here today. If you're not watching on video, you will see that we have a beautiful couple here. I had a chance to just chat a little bit before we got started. And I just know that they are going to bring so much power and insight to you guys. They've lived a full blessed life, I can already tell. So we thank you for that. Thank you for being here. So before we get into your story and you know the works that you're doing now, would you just tell us maybe a little bit about yourself?

Childhood Callings And Meet Cute

unknown 1:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

It's a hard question because it's like how do I encapsulate? But I love people to speak it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I I will try. My name's Christian McKinney, and I was born in Oklahoma. And I was saved, accepted the Lord when I was six years old. I was raised in church, a Christian home. And I also surrendered my life to full-time Christian service at Glorieta Christian Camp for Families in New Mexico when I was 10 years old. And when I went down front, the lady said, Are you coming to be a missionary? And I said, No, I think I'm supposed to be a pastor's wife. And she said, I never heard of that before. And I said, Are you sure that's what God's called? I was 10 years old. And I and I knew that that's what I was going to be. And so I went to Oklahoma Baptist University, and my life changed the second week of school when as an 18-year-old, I met a 16-year-old young man who became my husband. So you want to take it from there?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

I was uh also raised in a Christian home. My father was a pastor for 55 years. He is an extremely interesting story. Came from a non-Christian uh family in Harlan County, Kentucky. His dad was a coal miner, his grandfather was a coal miner, very rough alcoholic, bootlegger during prohibition.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Grandmother made homebrew in the kitchen. They lived in a little shanty most of the time. They were sheer croppers as well. And so one Sunday, my dad was invited to a church from the African American folks across on literally on the other side of the tracks.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And uh he jumped into the back of this pickup truck with all these black kids. My dad was what they called a toehead. Very, very fair. And I can't imagine what that looked like with him popped out of the middle of all those black faces. He went off to church with them that day and heard about Jesus for the first time and kept going to church and eventually accepted Christ. God called him to preach, and uh he moved from Harlan County to Cincinnati, and that's where he met my mom. And she had moved from Corbin, Kentucky. So we're kind of back home in Kentucky where my roots are. And so I surrendered to preach at 14 years old. Since dad was a pastor, he let me preach on Wednesday nights and Sunday nights. By the time I was 16 and going to college, I preached every night of the summer except for one. I would preach youth revivals and all kinds of youth meetings. And I even preached my way to college, preached a revival in Lungjack, Missouri on my way to Oklahoma. And drove a 64 VW bus out there. I was a hippie wannabe. Mom and Dad would never let me be a hippie. Um I tried to fake it as much as I could. And the second week of our freshman year, I was walking home with a couple friends from a football game, and Jane was sitting on a bench with her friend, and she had been told there were three of us from Ohio that one was 16, one was 18, one was 24. And she wanted the 24-year-old before she saw us.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So when I thought he was when I was walking along, it's very mature. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I was already losing my hair. Yeah, facial hair. Surely he's the 24-year-old. Right, right. He gave me a tangerine lifesaver, and that was the end.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

That was it. That's all it took.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

She went after we talked a couple hours that night. She went in and told her RA that she just met the man she was going to marry.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

I did.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And uh, so we've been together ever since. We've been married 52 years this coming Sunday. Congratulations. We got married between our sophomore and junior year in college. I was 18, and everybody said it wouldn't last. That's what they said. But uh God's good, it's been amazing. I mean, we've been in ministry together all of that time.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

So oh my gosh. Well, let me just first say I've I've never heard of anybody like basically proposing with a tangerine lifesaver. That was like what got you. That's what that's pretty cool. So do you guys keep lifesavers around?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

We did remember for a while. Actually, one church gave us a whole bowl of them, which we kept for a while.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

You have to special order the tangerine.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

I've never seen those before.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

They're really good. I tell all my students at at college that the girls I tell the females, I say, if you want a guy, get you some Tanzerian lifesavers. They're evidently something very magical.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

There's something sweet about it. Wow. Well, and and then too, like I just want to capture, you know, Jane, you were very young when I was 10.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I was 10 years old. We had been at this camp all week. It's it's a wonderful camp, and it's not a Christian camp anymore. It's still there. And we we actually went back because when he was 12, his family went there from Ohio. And so we've both been to Glorieta. And anyway, it's in New Mexico. So we went back a well, probably six years ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

And we both went back to that old auditorium where we made those decisions.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Because he made a decision there too. But it's it's a wonderful Christian camp. And I, you know, you go to classes and they teach the parents go and they go to classes like for Sunday school or for children's ministry, different things like that. They did back then. And so the kids just went to classes. And I I don't know. I just felt God tug on my heart. And I just and when I went down, and she said, you know, she said missionary, and I said, No, no, I don't want to be a missionary. Like, I just I don't know. I just knew, and it's just that's just part of my story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Like most most kids would have walked up with that intent of missionary, and you had a girl would have, yes. You had a different, a completely different stately vision pathway.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Right, because boys could go down and say they want to be a pastor or you know, whatever boys did back then. This was in the 60s. So, you know, girl, so when girls went down, they couldn't be anything but missionaries, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Unfortunately. I I guess I'm kind of curious between that age of 10 and then 18, like was there any like doubts, questioning, like, or did you were just fully like locked in? This is what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

You know, I'm not even sure it fully crossed my mind again. Oh I mean, I was a Christian, I went to church, but it was pretty just normal stuff. Just go on Sunday, you know, go to school, go to in Oklahoma. We have Falls Creek, which is a huge Christian camp. So in the summers, we went to Falls Creek. Everybody, you know, rededicated their life at Falls Creek, and then you went back to your own. I mean, that's just how it was. Yeah. Until when I, you know, met Rick and we started dating and we started having Bible study together. That's when my really that's when my life really became dedicated. Okay. When I was 13, I remember going down and and rededicating my life again. I had many times, you know, when you're a kid, you just feel God tugging at your heart. And so, you know, the the the message speaks to you, whatever. But until we really started doing Bible study together and getting kind of in depth into some stuff, he really taught me a ton when we first met. We just we had Bible studies together, and he, and you know, he was he had been in the Bible so much more than me. And just you know, kind of brought me along. And I mean, I I knew we were gonna be together.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So but I did go through that that transition. I was also saved at a very young age, first grade. But you know, I'd heard the gospel since before I was born. Dad being a preacher, you know, you just and I knew I I remember very clearly at five and six years old hearing the message and knowing that Jesus loved me and I needed to respond somehow. And then I became a very nominal Christian. Yeah, you know, just went to church because dad was a preacher and didn't read my Bible much, didn't pray much unless I was in trouble. I used to make deals with God all the time. I was always a chubby kid, and we didn't call it chubby back then, we called it husky, and so I was let me add, he got into a lot of trouble. I did.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

He was a

Jesus Movement Sparks Real Faith

SPEAKER_01 10:42

very honry child.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I used to make deals with God. I remember I would weigh myself, and I was so much bigger than all the other kids. And I would say, God, if you'll just make me skinny, I'll do anything you want me to do. He never made me skinny, but I still did what he wanted me to do. At my end of the bargain.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, oh my god. I mean, he set his kitchen curtains on fire with a rocket, tied up one of his teachers and put her in the closet. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Most of it was mischievous stuff rather than evil stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah, right. It was like you're just testing the waters, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I was just doing something. My mom was very mischievous. I think that I got so you learned it from her.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Now my dad was straight as an arrow. He would, you know. But anyway, when I was 13, we had a group of young people come from Texas and they stayed all week. They had been part of, they were kind of in that Jesus movement thing that was happening in Texas in the 70s. And uh, so when I was 13, I actually it would have been the late 60s, we spent a week with them, and I knew I knew I was a Christian, I knew I believed. Um I still believed that. I still believe if I'd have died at that point, I'd have gone straight to heaven. But I also knew that they had something that I didn't have. And at the end of the week, they put on a Christian contemporary musical. My whole youth group was there. And when they gave the altar call, I went forward and I said, I don't know what you guys have got. I don't know what it is that makes you different, but I need it, I want it. And my life was drastically changed. My matter of fact, my whole youth group went forward that night and made an unbelievable difference in our lives. We just became fireballs for Jesus, and everything changed for me. I couldn't talk about anything but Jesus. I don't know exactly what you call people, call that experience a lot of different things. And to me, it doesn't matter what label you put on it because it revolutionized my life. And it was a year later when God called me to preach. But our youth group became so on fire from God. When we began our last year in high school, I graduated a year early, but when we began our last year in high school, just a few of us were Christians. We had 104 people in our graduating class. It was it was a small school. And by graduation night, we could count a hundred people who were Christians. This again was during the height of the Jesus movement. It was so powerful. And my best friend was the class president. He spoke at graduation and gave a sermon, really. My dad was asked to speak. That's back when they had the baccalauric service during the graduation. He preached, and then all of the high school teachers selected me to be the faculty representative, and I got to speak. And people left the graduation that night and said it felt more like they'd been to a revival service than a graduation.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

And this was a public school.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Oh, oh, yes, public school.

unknown 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

What a stark difference, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Those people, I'm still friends with many of them on Facebook.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

They are very famous preachers. Dutch Sheets. I went to high school with Dutch Sheets. Oh, yeah, Dutch. He has a twin brother. Tim.

SPEAKER_05 14:11

Tim brother.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

And so uh I graduated. I graduated with them. Carol, Tim's wife, Carol, was a cheerleader at our in our senior class. And so those those are all people that I had association with.

SPEAKER_05 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

And have become great men and women of God. And so there was just something special that God did in that group of people turned our lives upside down. And I was never the same. I mean, and I never have been the same. It's never, it's never gone away. It's never faded. I've tried a fire has continued to I tried to walk away from preaching a few times, or at least from pastoring. Very hard life, very difficult, a lot of hurts, a lot of wounds.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Hard on wives.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Hard on pastors' wives. We tried a couple of times to walk away and do something else for God. We weren't mad at God. We just kind of aggravated with God's people.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Yeah, people are very people-y sometimes, aren't they? Very people-ly.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Jane reminds me every time I take a pastorate, they're just people.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Remember the people.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I'm an eternal optimist, so I always think it's going to be different. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

People have to remember like people aren't the enemy. The enemy is the enemy, right? And it's it's the people that are like the sandpaper to us to help us get a little smoother.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

And it takes but honestly, some of the meanest people I've ever known in my life are church people. And I think there's reasons.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Maybe you could talk a little bit about this. I did want to capture something really quick that you went from setting curtains to fire to setting people for the Lord, right? Can we just capture that today? I just wanted to say that. Okay. Just to capture that. From setting the curtains on fire. You got fired up. So tell us if you if you would just be completely, I don't know. I feel like we need to go here a little bit, just completely, not that you wouldn't be honest, but just really kind of open up the curtains to what you've experienced in, you know, pastoring, being a pastor's wife. Obviously, you don't need to tell people's names of what exactly you've experienced, but maybe share from your perspective, because as you've probably seen out on social media, like there's a lot of you know, church hurt, right? And I think it would be great for people to even come from the perspective of, okay, let's let's hear it from the people who are are are really doing their best, right? Like following the Lord. And I can only imagine the arrows that you've taken and

When Church Tradition Turns Cruel

SPEAKER_03 16:51

you're still standing. So would you guys be open to sharing a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

I'm gonna let him talk mostly, but I just want to say one thing. And I may cry, but the most astounding thing to me, Kristen, is when God is working and people are getting saved and the church clamps it down and in one instance fires their pastor for no reason after he had just baptized four adults the day before. Okay, that's all I'm gonna say, or I'm gonna get upset.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

And I think looking back at it from as neutral a position as I can, I really think that these kinds of church folks feel like they're doing the right thing. I don't think they're trying to be evil, I don't think they're demon-possessed necessarily. I think they're good people who believe that their job, that their duty as church members is to keep the status quo because they see the status quo as the standard. So if grandma sang from a hymn book, we shouldn't sing off the wall because grandma sang from a hymn book. If we had Sunday night church when grandpa was here, then we need to have Sunday night church. And so these these things that churches do become enshrined.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

These traditions.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

The traditions become holy. And so when somebody disturbs that, um he becomes the enemy. So that's what we've experienced in church. For instance, the one that Jane just referred to uh was a church that we went to that was no spirit, very controlled by a small group of people whose grandfathers had started the church.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

And so the church grew. I'm I'm the kind of pastor, and I always tell churches this before I go look, if I become your pastor, what's gonna happen is we're gonna grow because I'm gonna love people, and it's not gonna be church people who come, it's gonna be tattooed, pierced, you know, crazy looking people who've never been in church before, families whose kids don't know how to act in church, people who don't know how to dress or smell right for church, but they're people that need Jesus. And when that begins to happen, yeah, that makes church people very uncomfortable. It happened during the Jesus movement. I was a part of that. And if you've ever seen the movie Jesus Revolution, I was just thinking about that. Yeah, that's that's exactly how it was.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I was like the ragamuffins, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, we don't want people barefoot in our church, you know, they're ruining the carpet, whatever it happens to be. Um, and I experienced that with a church that I was going to a Jesus movement meeting at every Monday night where the pastor ultimately lost his job because people were coming to church in their sandals and blue jeans and overalls, you know. So I think that these folks are people who believe they're they're guarding what's important. They don't understand that the culture of the church has to reach the culture in which they uh exist. And if they don't, um they die. I went to a church once and it was mostly uh people in their 60s and 70s, um, very few children, very few, if any, teenagers. And I told them before I came, I said, if if the church is going to survive, you you've got to reach some younger people, you've got to do whatever it takes to get some young families and kids and teenagers. And their response was, we're not concerned about the long-term health of the church, we just want the church to be here long enough for us to have our funeral here.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

People actually said that. They actually said that might cross my eyes.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Another church I was at the deacons would all go away together to Florida for the winter. And when they came back one year, the church had doubled in size. We'd gone to two services, we'd had a contemporary service, all that. And one of the gentlemen actually stood up in the middle of the church service and said, If you new people think you're gonna run our church, you've got another thing coming. So this is the kind of thing that hurts. And it hurts because it hurts the heart of God, so it hurts the heart of the shepherd. But then when people take that to the next level and say, we're gonna attack you, or we're gonna accuse you, or we're gonna attack your wife, we're gonna say things about her or your kids. I had a man one time just yell out across the church building and call my my middle daughter stupid because he didn't like what she was doing. And I mean, these are things that really happened. And so, you know, there comes a point at which you just say, I I don't know if it makes sense. You know, it's kind of like a a wife who stays with an abusive husband.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

It's like at some point you say, you really need to get out of the situation.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Anyway, that's yeah, that's that's what we we honestly uh moved to Kentucky is kind of home with the idea.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

It was six years ago, so we were in our late 60s, mid sixties, and with the idea of retiring from the ministry. He was already teaching college online and he was offered position to teach in seats. And so we moved here. And and I told him, I said, I don't want to be a pastor's wife anymore. I I just can't do this anymore. And of course he when you're called to preach, Kristen, and I it's

Trying To Retire From Calling

SPEAKER_01 22:53

like, I don't even know what it's like. But when you're called to preach, you just can't, you just can't not do it, apparently. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Well, it's it's in your DNA, right? When you're when you're called to it, it's definitely in your spiritual DNA.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah. So he started taking you know little opportunities to preach here and there, and before long, this little church asked him to be their pastor. We hadn't even been here a year.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Just a few months.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

And I said, Oh gosh, do I have to go? You know, do I have to go?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

But but let me tell you how that happened. So we came here, we were gonna retire from the ministry, we found a new doctor, okay, uh, went to the doctor, and she is checking my heart, and she says, Have you ever seen a cardiologist? And I said, Do I need to see a cardiologist? And she said, Well, let me do an EKG. So they did an EKG. She came back in and said, I'm calling the cardiologist and see if I can get you in tomorrow. So I go to the cardiologist and he tells me I have this heart issue that I haven't been aware of. He says, I may have had it since I was born, and that I'm gonna have to have surgery. It's not like clogged veins or anything, but it's something to do with the the mechanics of your heart.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

So I was really scared. Really not afraid to die, but just you know, don't want to be a good idea. You just don't want to, you know, unexpected. We were attending a church in the town where the college is where I teach, and I had already resigned myself to not not preaching anymore. I was on the way home that day, and I s I just sensed that God was speaking to my heart and saying, Are you done? Are you done preaching? And I said, I want to be done. And he said, Well, if you're done and you're not gonna fulfill the calling that I put on your heart, why don't I just take you home?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

In the car, on the way home. This is happening.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

It wasn't mean, it wasn't mean. I I I really sensed that God was being loving, you know? It wasn't he wasn't gonna kill me because he was being mean, he was he was doing a very loving gesture. If you can't do this anymore, let me just bring you home. You've done a great job, you've had a great life, ministered to a lot of people, let me just bring you home. And I said, No, I I'm not ready. I gotta preach. And at the end he said, Wherever you need healing, put your hand. I put my hand on my heart, and he prayed. And as soon as he was done praying, I knew I was healed. And the next day I went and took four hours worth of tests, yeah. Electrocardiograms and echograms and dye into my veins and treadmills and special cameras and all that kind of stuff. And the next day the doctor said, I don't know what happened, but there's nothing wrong with your heart.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And I knew it was because I had said yes to God. I knew it was because if I wasn't done, then he wasn't done.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah. And I couldn't be. And you couldn't be either.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So good, and he loves us so much. And I think he calls us to do things and he wants us, but he won't force us to do those things. And my opinion is if we can't do it with a willing heart, then it it doesn't do much good. And so here I am pastoring again. Just had our one-year anniversary at this new church.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

Oh, congrats.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

They were just they were just about gone.

unknown 27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Hadn't they not had some endowments from people who passed away, they would have closed. COVID just about killed them. Big, beautiful building that holds two or three hundred people, stained glass, just gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

15 people.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, about 12 or 15 people. And I said, I'll go for as long as I can. I told him when I said, look, I'm 70 years old. I may not be here more than two or three years. But anyway, we just celebrated our first anniversary. They were so gracious, so kind. We've been running a couple weeks ago. We had 48, which is I think we had 40 Sunday, good, which is great for starting a year ago with 15. I mean, just been gracious, gracious.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And it's it's a lot of new people. I mean, it's not like the old people came back, it's it's new people.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Oh, I got a story I'm gonna tell you, but uh I won't take a lot of time. But yeah, I'll make a story. Tell us a story. You got a little story.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

You can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

It's a fad you have to tell us. I do, I know. So many years ago we were pastoring in Kentucky. We were on our way to the hospital to visit somebody.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Okay, you gotta add this is the church where the man stood up and said, if these new people are gonna take over. This is the church.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

We're on our way to the hospital at the church. Jane has a dress on because that's you know, it was a dress church, not a Jean's church. Okay. So we see this motorcycle in the middle of the road, just sitting there. And so we started looking around and we could see a motorcycle off the road. Anyway, long story short, we got out. Jane jumped down in the ditch, and there's this man in there bleeding, barely breathing. She grabs his hand.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Later on, we found out he had a broken, and I was here

The Biker In The Ditch

SPEAKER_01 28:59

like this.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

She was she was down here with her dress on praying for him. I still remember the dress she had on.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

I do too.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

And we started ministering to him, ministering to him. He wasn't a Christian, completely covered in tattoos. He owned the pool hall, motorcycle guy, not church, not Christian at all.

SPEAKER_05 29:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

And uh he had a 12-year-old son who was just beside himself because his daddy was he was riding on the bicycle with his mom.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

And she was off on the trying to get a signal, trying to call somebody back when cell signals were hard. You know, holding the phone back.

unknown 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

So anyway, Jane went and sat with this 12-year-old boy in the car to calm him down, prayed with him, and talked to him. And his name was Joe. His dad's name was also Joe. So, anyway, over the course of the next year, we just ministered to him. We went and mowed his grass because he was he survived. He was in a body cast, broken bones. He was a mess.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

We actually went up to Lexington to the hospital thinking we might not even see him again, but he was alive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

He recovered, but during the time we'd take him chicken to the house. I went one night, took a bucket of chicken, and I took my youth director with me. And when we came out, he said, You didn't talk about Jesus. I said, No, but I was Jesus, which is a whole lot more important than talking about him.

SPEAKER_05 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

So uh my last Sunday at that church, I baptized Joe. Joe the biker and his mother. It's one of my fondest memories. Well, we go to this church and now that you know where we are now, yeah, and we notice that we're seeing the sons Joe's pay stuff on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Young Joe, who's now the 12-year-old, who is now who is now 30 years old, married, married with two little children.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

So we started seeing this stuff. So we invited him to come to church. They live an hour away from our church building. And for the last six weeks, they've been there every Sunday. They drive an hour every week, and they are just glued to the word, so excited, hopefully gonna be baptized soon. And their kids are great and going to kids' church in 12 years. 12 years.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

So you never know because he's 30 now.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Oh, 18 years. 18 years ago, this happened. And you never know those seeds oh your yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yes. Literally, like your yes to go into the ditch, your yes to go back into maybe what felt like a ditch coming back into pasturing, right? Sometimes absolutely, yeah. Oh yeah. But your yes. But I mean, I I I always like to say like our yes has generational implications. We really don't we don't always we won't always see, like, we don't always get to see it here, but we know that he's gonna show us later. Like, especially those. I think they're really the challenging guesses where you're like, really, God, you want me to go back in?

SPEAKER_01 32:08

And and Jane, you're like Yes, really and it and it's 45 minutes for it. It's a 45 minute drive for us. Is it really? Yes. And I'm teaching, you know, during the day, come home on Wednesday night, and I've taken over the kids' ministry. Oh my gosh. On Wednesday night, and I have all these plans, and I have seven, eight kids sometimes, which are which is a lot, you know, you know, at once trying to corral and do a 72-year-old woman and do craft after a long day of teaching, and God is just good. You know, I walk out and I'm exhausted, but you know, God is just yeah, I'm 70.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Jane's 72.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Well, I I wanted the listeners to hear this because you know, there's our our world would often say, like, 65, just go retire and kick up your feet and well when you've been a pastor, you don't have retirement much, if any.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So you can't live on social security, I guarantee you because we haven't put enough back.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

And we, I mean, financially, God is good, but we have to keep working. I mean, there's no retirement in our future, which is fine. We don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

No, we just I wouldn't want to just do nothing. Yeah, I don't know if I mentioned or not. We have two craft businesses. I do woodworking and make silver jewelry. I'm a quilter, and she's a quilter. We do that.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

If you guys aren't on video, you can't see the the beautiful quilt. You'll have to get over on YouTube and check it out. So, can people buy your items like if they don't live near you?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, we we both have Facebook pages. Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Oh, okay. Well, let's capture that really quick. What are your Facebook pages?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Okay pages mine's Jane's Creations. Jane's Creations, okay, teal banner with a quilt square. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

I'll I'll add that to the show notes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Mine's old hippie woodworking.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

And there's a there's a VW bus in my logo.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Old hippie woodworking. But he also makes

Creativity That Heals And Serves

SPEAKER_01 34:21

jewelry out of silverware. Oh, really? He has another Facebook page for that called And what is that Facebook page? Silver Reimagined. Silver Reimagined.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

I mean uh spoon rings and necklaces and bracelets, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Silverware.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

So so can I ask you a question about that really quick?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Where okay, so I I I want to go here for a second. So I I talk to a lot of people who have like a creative, you know, bend in them that they've got a lot going on. They're moms and wives and business and you know, all the things. And I feel like there's so many people that have this creative bend in them, but they just have kind of let it go to the background. What would you say to somebody? Because you guys have a full plate. How do you how do you make time for it? Like what how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Where I can just go in my room and I may just spend a couple of hours. Okay. I may not get in there for several days, but it's just something I like to do. I've sewed since I was a child. Took home ec in school, learned how to make my own clothes back then in Oklahoma. We had Home Eck, and you know, so I even made him shirts, made him a suit jacket after, yeah, and made one of my bridesmaids' dresses. I mean, so I was quite the sewer, yeah, and kind of let it go, made a few things for the kids, you know, being a mom, I was busy. And then about 30 years ago, a friend of ours offered a quilt class. Oh, and me and his dad took the class. His dad was also the sewer, and he had kind of let it go. He actually made my wedding dress. His dad did. So we took the quilting class together and we both became quilters after that. So which is another whole story about quilting. But so that's kind of my creative outlet. But then now I do creative things with the kids too at church. So I guess it's my creative stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

For me, I think it's just it's not as enjoyable as it is for Jane. Uh, but it's therapy for me because most everything I do, the results are hard to see. You witness and you share and you preach, and a lot of times you don't see visible results. Yeah, I can take a spoon and make a ring out of it, and I say, I did this. You know, so there's there's that's so good. Yeah, gotta tell you about the quilting, though. My dad was, I'm sorry, honey.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

My dad became this wonderful quilter. He had a big quilt rack. And when my mom went into nursing home, she had all kinds of issues. My dad would go every morning at seven o'clock when they got her out of bed. He set up his quilting frame in her room in the nursing home, and he would stay with her till they put her in bed at night, and he would quilt all day. He made quilts for the AIDS and he made quilts when they had babies, and he would just quilt all the time. And so when he passed away, he had a brain tumor and passed away when he was 78. We asked everybody he'd made a quilt for to bring them to the funeral, and we displayed them all over the stage. And then we had the quilting frame that he was working on when he passed away, and the quilt that was not finished there on the stage. And I preached his funeral, which was not expected. The man he had always said he wanted to preach wasn't available to come. So I preached his funeral and I preached a sermon called Unfinished Quilt. That all of us have this unfinished business that we need to take care of. And it was an amazing thing. My dad was my dad was an amazing man. Love Jesus more than anybody I ever knew in my life.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Oh my gosh. Well, I'm just imagining like how many quilts were there? Were you just flirted by how many quilts I don't know?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

And probably a lot maybe 50, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

And the church was packed. I mean, people came from every church he had ever pastored, except for the one in New York. Right. His dad was a pioneer missionary, was what they called him. And Rick spent five years in New York, and nobody was able to come from New York, but every other church he had pastored, there were people there. And it was it was fantastic. Just oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

What is like what a what a legacy, right?

unknown 38:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

I actually got to go back and pastor some of those people later when I started pastoring.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

And I went back to the same town where I grew up and uh pastored some of those same people.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So how many years have you been pastoring in in total at this point?

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Well, pastoring 50, but we took seven years of that and we did full-time evangelism. So I was still preaching and ministering. We were both we did children's ministry. We both have music majors, our undergraduate degrees are music. And so we did concerts, we've made several CDs and what what do you not do? We did we did puppet ministry, Jane did ballooning, I did illusions.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

Really?

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

We had we had some of the greatest. We had 3040 puppets, big puppet stage. We actually have puppets. We still have puppets made by a man named David Pannebecker who worked with uh Jim Henson with the Muppets.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Really? So they're puppet style puppets. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

You tell him what you want, and he made them special for you.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

So we sold most of our puppets, but we could not work with those because they were actually we have an old couple that at the time didn't look like us at all, but now it does. Now they look like us.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

We did our own puppet voices, and I do something called illustrated sermons, where I do a sermon in costume. Sometimes it's a biblical character, but most often it's a contemporary character that I do a homeless person or I do somebody, I did somebody in a wheelchair once. I borrowed a coffin once, and I was a contemporary Peter. I went and wept over the clothes casket, and then we rigged the casket so we could open the lid and the light inside for the resurrection. And so I'm a creative person.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

You guys are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

It's all about storytelling. My doctorate degree is actually instelling.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, it is. Like the storytelling is it's

Why Stories Change Hearts

SPEAKER_03 41:01

so powerful, sharing stories, right? And I'm sure. Do you have any maybe any testimonials of maybe even children or adults that have heard your storytelling that it actually because I'm a very like visual person, hearing, seeing, like if something's on video, you know, like that's why I like the chosen, the chosen? I can't say it. The chosen, like watching the Bible like come to life or or movies that are about, you know, the Bible and Jesus and the disciples, and just watching them see their personalities. Do you have any testimonials?

SPEAKER_00 41:37

I use tons of videos. I use tons of videos in my services because I'm a visual learner. That's how I learn.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

But yeah, I I can just tell you that all of our people at our church will tell you, and I think I'm a pretty good preacher, but all of our people in our church will tell you that their very favorite part of the service is my children's sermons. Oh because my children's sermons, they're object lessons, but they're stories. Yeah, I tell stories. We had a I found out a long time ago that when I would preach, I would start telling a story, yeah, and people would start paying attention. They would zone out when you're preaching, but as soon as you start telling a story, all of a sudden it's like they wake up and they listen to the story, which is why Jesus told parables. You know, Jesus didn't preach sermons, he told stories.

SPEAKER_05 42:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

And so, and that's why, because there's some great, great quotes about stories, but one of the great quotes is that we are by nature storytellers. We even dream stories all night long. We tell ourselves stories, yeah. And so that's how God made us, because it is all a story from beginning to end. That's what Genesis Revelation is. It's one big story, and that's how He made us. And so we relate to stories, and I love stories.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

We we haven't we haven't even talked about our book.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

Well, I I wanted to get there, but can I can I first make a piece of I was just gonna say we have story after story, yeah. We're gonna make sure I'm absolutely capturing that because we're that's one part you haven't told us that you guys are writers and have the authority. Right? So I just wanted to ask for each of you, who is your favorite Bible person? Like who who really has maybe kept you on path? Because I have some myself that I'm like, oh, you're you're my person. You really helped me keep on this narrow road and challenging road that the Lord has me on at times.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

I know mine, so I'll go first.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

No, let me go, because three. Probably Paul. We're reading, we're reading Acts and now Romans, and I just love how his his turnaround and and how he changed. But as far as women, because I think it's important for women to have a to have a woman character. I have two Ruth and Esther. And I love both of their stories so much. I just I can't get away from for such a time as this. I just can't get away from it. And then Ruth, and I just taught Ruth last Wednesday night to the kids, so it's very fresh. And at the end of the lesson, one of the little boys said to me. Ruth said, and not prompted or anything. Ruth said, where you go, I will go. Where you live, I will live. And who is your God will be my God. Jack. Little Jack.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Little little boy said this.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Oh totally, what is he? Seven?

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Yeah. Totally unprompted. We had just had the lesson. We had watched a video and it was quoted, you know. Yeah. But it stuck with him. And that's just so powerful, you know? Yeah. Anyway, all right. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Okay. Mine, mine is the unexpected one. Mine is King Hezekiah, who is just a fabulous figure in the Old Testament. His father was horrible. His son was horrible. He was this great king between these two horrible people. And he did a lot of things. He's responsible for Hezekiah's tunnel and all those kinds of things. But my favorite part of the story is he was sick. And the prophet came to tell him he was going to die. And the Bible says that he faced the wall and he asked God. Actually, he made a case to God. He said, God, I've tried to do the right thing. I've tried to serve you. Please heal me. And God stopped the prophet before he got out of the palace and said, Go back and tell him he's going to live 15 more years. And I tell that story in my Old Testament class. And so it has led me. The first time I realized that, I prayed. I said, God, give me 15 more years. I want to preach for 15 more years.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

And then I'll lay down and come home. But give me 15 years. And I got home and told Jane that she said, why didn't you pray for 25? I said, because I don't want to be 93. I just want to be 83 and go home.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Gosh, can you can you imagine being 93 though? Like what a testimony, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Well my my my mother was 92. Yeah. And she was one of the most incredible women in the world. And I probably don't have time for this story, but I'll I'll make it short. I probably can you can share if you were led to. You've got plenty of time here. My daddy left us when I was 12. Like I said, I was raised in a Christian home. He was our church music leader and he walked out on us. So embarrassing. I was 12. I had three younger siblings. We had to leave the church. We, you know, we went to a different church. I mean, it was just, it was horrible. It was a horrible time in our life. Yeah. My mom had never worked. She did not drive. Yeah. And my papa took her downtown Oklahoma City to get welfare. She thought that

Reconciliation And The Hard Work

SPEAKER_01 47:50

was her only answer. And they, I mean, they just didn't know what to do with a single woman with four children in the 60s. They gave her a job. She got a job from the city of Oklahoma City in the water department. Papa took her to work until she learned how to drive and helped her buy a car. She raised us four kids. She retired from the city of Oklahoma City as one of the three buyers of the city, which is a huge position. Bought everything for the city. And she did not give up. She kept going to church. She, I mean, she went everywhere. She drove everywhere. We finally had to put her in a home. And she was a witness there. I mean, just an amazing woman. Oh. And she was 92. And that's my goal. Oh my gosh. But but I hope he's with me.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

When they uh when they started going through her finances at the end, her brother was gonna do this, and she was never a rich person, but always very frugal. Very frugal. I mean, she'd go get a hamburger and divide it in fourths and eat a fourth each day.

SPEAKER_05 49:00

Wow. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

So she was very frugal. Anyway, when they started going through her finances to try to get everything in order before she passed away, they found out that the year before she had given $50,000 away to missionaries organizations.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

She helped missions and missionaries all over the world. And when we did her funeral, people rate would would televise in, streaming, and talk about her and the people that she had helped in Africa. And I mean, it was just and us kids didn't even know that. I was gonna say, and you had no idea. Well, we knew she was giving her money away.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

But um you didn't know you didn't get to the tangible no, we didn't paid for people to go to college and seminary so that they could study for the ministry. Yeah, just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Just incredible. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

We we come, you know, I always tell people you stand on the shoulders of those who came before you. And Jade and I have the wonderful legacy of our parents who and she later reconciled with her dad. I don't want to leave that story untold. And that's one of the things I kind of encouraged her and helped in that because I said it really cut him off.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

I did I don't have anything to do with that.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

I said, I don't know what he did, and and you know, it's I don't even know what he did except he left us, you know. But I said you've got to reconcile with him, and he actually sang at our wedding.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

He did really.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Oh, he had a beautiful voice, yes. And did you know that he had a beautiful voice? Oh, yeah, yeah. He always sang, he was the church music leader, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Okay, so he remembered. But you know, she uh yeah, she reconciled with him and and I got to know him some and um it was awesome. But God can't use you to the fullest if you have those kinds of situations in your life that you don't take care of. And um that's that's tough sometimes, especially in that situation.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah, but it is. I've walked I've walked through it myself, and when I got saved from addiction when I was 25, I didn't grow up in church, and I won't share my whole story here. But one of the first things that really God got a hold of me when I was separated from my family was you know, forgive lest you be forgiven. And it was just this I knew I had to go forgive my parents in order for my life to be fully forgotten, recovered, and transformed. So what would you say to somebody maybe today who's listening in and their hearts kind of tugging a little bit hearing this, you know, from both of our sides here? I know, I know how challenging it is, and I'm sure you remember, you know, aspects of that, but what what came of that? Did you feel a release?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Like was there I did, I did. I felt and it was wonderful to be back with my daddy again and to have him back again, to forgive him. Yeah. And even now when I talk about how hard it was, that part's gone, even though it makes me sad that it happened to us, it made all of us stronger. Um my next sister is uh an amazing witness for the Lord. Her husband also got brain cancer at the same time as Rick's dad and passed away. And she everywhere she goes, she tells people about chips. She shares her story, and I mean, she's amazing. My little brother grew up to be a missionary to Peru. Yeah. And my youngest sister is a 911 operator in Oklahoma City and has been for over 35 years. She was on the board when uh the bombing happened, the Oklahoma City bombing. She took all those calls, and she's just an amazing Christian influence to hurting people who call, you know. That's that's the four of us that my mom raised by herself. Yeah, I mean, and even though it was horrible what we went through, but but yeah, there's a there's just a huge release, and and I know that my daddy's in heaven and I'll see him again. And yeah, um, it's just yeah, and if someone's done you wrong, I mean, one of the hardest things for me, Kristen, has been these church people that have hurt us. Yeah, there are even there are even things that I don't know that he won't tell me. He says there are there are things people have said and done behind my back that I don't even know, and that's fine. I don't need to know, but it's been one of the hardest things for me to forgive them because not only has it hurt him and his ministry, and we couldn't go on at those places, we had to leave. Yeah, there's no telling what damage was done to the people we had to leave behind. Now we're friends. I have I have over 2,000 friends on Facebook because we've been because we've been in churches and I have friends all the way back to grade school, and yeah, but we've left people behind and people got left out and people fell through the cracks. I know they have because of what people did to us, and that's they're gonna have to answer for that, you know, and that's hard. Yeah, and when when people do things to you, for anyone listening, one of the hardest things is to forgive, but you can only forgive if you give it to God. You can't I can't forgive. Yeah, you can whoever's listening, you can't forgive. God can do it through you, and yeah, and the main thing I would say is to pray for them because it's hard to be mad and not forgive someone you're praying for. So just keep praying for them.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

That's a huge key right there.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Praying for them. We we have to.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

We we just yeah, yeah, and especially you know, in our world right now, like everybody's it's just it's everybody's everything, it's everything's you know, so yeah, yeah. So yeah, keep going. Well, let's make sure we talk about your authority. I like to say authority, the authority in books, which like tell us about this journey to even did how did you have you always written? Like, do you love writing? Is writing a challenge? Nope. Like, what does it look like? When did you get your first book out the door?

SPEAKER_00 55:26

We were in our six late 60s, yeah. Three years ago.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

It was just three months ago. Yeah, um people listen in, people listen in.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

It's the product of our walk across America. We walked from Los Angeles, California to Washington, DC, 20 miles a day, six days a week for six months, 2,770 miles. God told us to walk across America and claim our country for the Lord to share our faith and pray for our nation. And we did. And we met hundreds of people. And really, the book is is the stories of meeting those people. When we first started, we thought this is my quotable quote for the day. Well, when we first started, we thought the walk was about the steps. What we found out was that the walk was about the stops, the bus stops, the pit stops, the crosswalks, yeah, the hospitals, the ditches

Walking Across America And Writing

SPEAKER_00 56:19

I got admitted to. Yeah, those things. I had a horrible accident in Arkansas, burned myself very badly, went to the emergency room. We had just walked past that hospital the day before, and we would never have been allowed to go in the hospital and witness to the doctors and nurses. But when I burned myself, Jane took me to the emergency room. So I got to share with the nurses, the intake person, all the doctors, the specialists. They transferred me to the burn center in Little Rock, and I got to witness to all the people there. Our pastor met us there, who just happened to be in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Church was praying for us every week. They had prayer meetings for us. I called his wife immediately and she said, He's on a fishing trip. And I said, Oh, okay, well, can you get a hold of him? And he was in Arkansas on a fishing trip.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

He actually beat us to the hospital in Little Rock. And so his dad was a powerful witness who was with him. They had shared with everybody in the waiting room about Jesus. I got to talk to the head doctor of the Burns Center. He was a wonderful Catholic man. We shared Jesus. We talked about Jesus. We had a little revival there in the in the room. And they said, You won't walk again for two weeks because of where the burns were. They said, You can't walk for two weeks. You're you you'll do damage. This was on a Friday, and we were supposed to walk in Morralton, Arkansas that day.

SPEAKER_05 57:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

So Saturday was Jane's birthday. I went home, went to bed. We just got up a couple hours, went to eat. I couldn't put pants on or anything regular, which I had to wear big, you know, baggy pants.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, like hospital pants.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Sunday. Sunday. We stayed in.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

So only Sunday we didn't go to church on the walk.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

And Monday morning, I got up and I said, I'm gonna walk. I don't know how far I'm gonna walk, but I'm gonna walk. And so we started in Morralton, Arkansas, but we started a couple hours late because of all the stuff that was happening with my body. And we started walking through Morrelton and we ran into a man at a car repair shop who was standing outside working on a car. His name was Jeff. And so I stopped and I started to talk to Jeff about Jesus. He wasn't a Christian. Before we left, Jeff had accepted Christ as his savior. Now, here's the twist. Had we walked on Friday morning at seven o'clock, Jeff's shop wouldn't have been open. It was closed.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

We'd have walked right on by.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

We'd have walked right on by. Because we were there at nine o'clock instead of seven o'clock. He was outside. And I tell people that God has promised to take everything and use it for his glory and for our good. And that is really tough sometimes. Anyway, uh the book came out of that walk and all those experiences.

SPEAKER_05 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

People kept saying, You gotta write a book, you gotta write a book. I wasn't a writer.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

She had journaled all the way across America, written the name of every person we talked to. She did. I wrote every mile we walked. And I took her journals, and we it took several years, 16 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

16 amazing.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

And finally, three years ago, we released it. It's called And So We Walked. It was been a bestseller about 10 times over the last three years on Amazon. Um, and it's been an amazing trip. You don't make any money with that, by the way. I think we sold uh 10 books the other day, and I said we made 63 cents. Who cares?

SPEAKER_05 59:59

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

That's just people. So it started a journey for us. We just published our ninth book, and uh we've got ninth book, yeah. Yeah, another one coming out at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

Yeah, so so the first one there was definitely it it took some time, but have you felt like every time you write a book, it just becomes easier, easier, easier and leads and just leads to something the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

The thing that the thing we did next was called sharing Jesus without saying a word. And it's non-verbal ways to share Jesus. It was just a short book. And then we wrote a big book called Till the Whole World Knows. And it's a it's a thick book that's full of servant evangelism and ways to touch people's lives and things that you can do, either talking or not talking, getting an elevator speech, a one-minute speech you can give to somebody in the elevator about Jesus, things to notice about them. Are they wearing a cross or crucifix? If they are, you can start a conversation. Oh, I see you're wearing a cross. Does that mean something to you? Do you do you believe in that? Yes or no? And then that opens up a whole conversation. So we wrote a couple books about witnessing and sharing. We've written some devotional books. We just released one about spiritual maturity, about demolishing strongholds and having quiet times and witnessing and sharing. So we love it, and it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

And now we're getting ready to go away for a week for our anniversary Sunday. Well, we married 52 years. We're getting ready to go away for a week. Make him finish his book on his dad because his dad has such an interesting life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

So you're gonna get get to finish it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

It's almost done. It's almost done. My dad's name was JC. Both of his parents were illiterate. So when the nurse came in and asked my grandmother what she wanted to name my dad, she said JC. Well, she didn't know how to spell it or how to write it. We don't know what she meant.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

It might have meant Jesse. We don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Nobody knows. They had a good friend named Jesse. But anyway, the nurse just wrote on the birth certificate, J C. No and no one, no periods.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

No periods, no middle name, two letters. Two letters.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

So all my life, my dad had this unique name. And whenever he would introduce himself to people, he would say, I'm JC McKinney. No name, just initials. And that was like his calling card.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

That's the name of the book. No name, just initials.

unknown 1:02:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

I love it. Cool. These are amazing. Oh my goodness. I we'll probably have to have you back again another time and share more. There's more stories here.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Oh, one kind of stories.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

We'll do like part two. Okay. Someday down the road. You guys are just full of so much goodness. Thank you for continuing to walk, literally. Like walk this out, walk, you know. I say like a lot of our stories, we've walked through the fire and we we keep going and we come out with keys on the other side to share with people, right? So thank you for continuing on. You're both just like precious, if I can say that. So before before we wrap up today, can we for sure? I know I'm gonna capture your Facebook pages and put them in the show notes, and I'll also put your links to your books. But is there a great place for somebody to contact you? Website, email?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yeah. Website's easiest and it's very simple. Rick and Jane McKenney.com. Okay. Sounds good. There's lots of stuff there. Our books are there, but the main thing is there are stories, there are pictures of all the places we've been Tibet, China, Mexico, there are videos and pictures about the walk. I write a blog once a month. There's just lots of information there about our lives and that sort of thing. And then of course all of our books too. So we'd love and there's a place there they can contact us directly. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Okay, perfect. Well, I'll link that in the show notes too. And then before before we fully wrap up, if you just have like any other either one of you, you can both share too, but if you have just any other words of wisdom or encouragement that you'd want to share with, I do this for the one. I truly, if you could get in mind that one that's listening in today, do you have anything else that you'd want to say to that person to help them keep on on their walk?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Probably. The main thing I would like to say is that no matter how old you are or how or how young, God has never done with you. No matter where you've been, what you've done, He will continue to have a plan for you. We are in a completely different season than we ever dreamt of. I didn't go to school to be a school teacher. I went to school to sing. And it's just amazing that God has opened this opportunity for me to minister to high school students who love me. And

Never Too Old To Serve

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

they call me grandma and they give me hugs and they they wait for me in the hall to see which room I'm gonna be in that day. And I know it's just amazing. And I get to share Jesus and be Jesus. And God's never done with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

This is a public school, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

A public school, yeah. And I mean, we're in Kentucky, it's a little freer than some, but it's an amazing opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

And just well, mine's not nearly as long as that. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

Oh, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

You are good.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

I mean, this is just so basic. But what I'd want to leave with anybody who's listening is loving Jesus and serving Jesus is the highest calling that humans have. And whether it seems like it or not at the time, it's worth it. Um Andre Crouch, I don't know if you know that name or not, but he was a contemporary singer back in the 60s and 70s. African American wrote some great, great songs like Through It All and My Tribute to St.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

If Heaven Never Was Promised to Me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:59

That's what I was gonna talk about. Okay, thank a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

He had this song, If Heaven Never Was Promised to Me. And Heaven's Wonderful. I'm looking forward someday to being there. But honestly, if Heaven never were promised to me, I'd still love him and I'd still serve him.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Thank you. Oh, if you guys are not watching, please, please go watch the video. These these two are literally precious. Thank you for both sharing your hearts today. I am going to again have to have them back, but I do want to close. I actually have to close things up, and I'm gonna close with our hope unlocked anchoring verse. And it's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound, just love abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you both for being brave voices who are setting so many free. I will be back with another episode next week. Thank you, listeners. Bye.