When Life Stops Making Sense: Trusting God Through Cancer, Grief & Loss with Kathy Rogers

What does it look like to trust God when life no longer makes sense? Speaker and author Kathy Rogers shares her journey through triple-negative breast cancer, a BRCA2 family diagnosis, and the devastating loss of both her mother and 29-year-old daughter. She opens up about grief, depression, perseverance, gratitude journaling, and finding steady ground in Ephesians 3:14–21. Through God winks, a healing road trip, and a memorial marathon, Kathy reminds us that joy and grief can coexist—and that identity in Christ brings freedom when life feels fragile.

Kathy's contact info:

Email - info@thekathyrogers.com

Website - www.thekathyrogers.com

Kathy's book:

Look for Good: Discovering God in Grief, Celebration and the Every Days

Kathy's podcast:

The Kathy Roger's Podcast: Your Best Friends Mom

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before we jump into today's episode, I want to tell you about ReLight. ReLight is a brand new web and mobile app, one without distractions of social scrolling and chat. If you're a content creator, coach, mentor, writer, author, teacher, or leader, Reelite gives you a dedicated space to capture what God is speaking, organize your content, and share it with those you lead. Ready to create and share God notes with your followers? As a special launch welcome, sign up is free through September 1st, 2026. Visit ReLight.com to get started today. That's spelled R-E-L-I-H-T. No G. Welcome

Welcome And Meet Kathy Rogers

SPEAKER_00 0:36

to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Kathy Rogers to the show. I'm so excited to have her here today. I feel like it's been a long time coming, and I feel like I've known you forever. We had a chance to talk a little bit before I hit record. And I just know you guys are just gonna love her as I already do. And it's only been like, how long have we been talking? Like 20. So, Kathy, before we get into your story and what you're up to these days, would you share a little bit about yourself? I

Kathy’s Work, Family, And Calling

SPEAKER_00 1:07

will.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

I am Kathy Rogers. It's hard for me to describe what I am, but I am a daughter of the Almighty God. And I am also a wife, a mother, a Mimi to six. We own several businesses. We are franchisees for nothing but cakes. And I own a business where I get to speak and share my story with business groups, or I get to share the store, my faith story. I'm a recent best-selling author, and I just enjoy sharing my podcast every couple of weeks. Sometimes I think I can't, I'm trying to keep it a secret because I forget to tell people it's out there. But I just love what God's doing in my life right now. It is scary, exciting, kind of on that edge of I can't wait to see what's next kind of phase, and I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Well, what's what's the name of your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So

Why Her Podcast Exists

SPEAKER_00 2:08

we hide it.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

It is your best friend's mom. And it's basically what God's doing in my life because he's always teaching me something. It came out of a story that I'll tell you a little bit about later. But I have daughters that are, you know, when you're with their friends as you're growing, as they're growing up, you're in the car together, they're at your house for Bible study, you're pouring into these women, young women, and then you lose contact with them. But you still love them and adore them, but they've grown up, they've gone to college, then they begin their own families. And this was just one of my daughters was that type of person that was just that point for her friends. You know, she she was the first one to know who was pregnant, she was the first one to know who was engaged, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so they would come to her for, oh, what do you think of this kind of thing? And as that pivot point, we we lost her at one point, and that that's part of my story. But um, her friends would tell me that one thing she would say is, Well, my mom says, and I think God used that as a catalyst to go, you've got a story to tell. And here's the audience to start with. So I don't know, I think those ladies are listening, but God has used it to help me gain confidence in my story and sharing what he's doing in my life, and so wow. So, how long have you been doing that? I have been doing it now 14 months. I've been doing it over a year. So I think I have like 40 episodes or something like that. I mean, like, it's not not as impressive as yours, but it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I know you know it's interesting. Well, I I feel like somebody who's listening maybe needs to hear this because anybody can do it, honestly. Like,

Perseverance And Not Quitting

SPEAKER_00 4:00

if I can do it, if you can do it, that's it. Anyone can do it, like for real. Like I would not have been, you know, back in high school, I'd probably be the least likely to have a podcast, right? Yes, which is great because God loves those those willing vessels who say yes. But somebody recently told me that anybody who has like a podcast that's done more than 10 episodes, like most people quit after I heard that same step. Around that, like two hands, they're like, Okay, I'm done. I'm like, I didn't know that. And I've been doing this for over three years. And it what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Like, what I I totally get it, and I actually used it as a carrot to dangle in front of myself, you know, because there were times, and when I go back and look at the early stuff, it was just so cringy. And part of that is the grief story that I was going through and processing through in a podcast. But I I was dangling that carrot in front of myself. Okay, 11, 11. And then if you can make it to 25, you know, just the the percentage of people that you were in a group with when it comes to that, there are things sometimes that I have to do that to myself. Yeah. You would think it would be enough to just say, oh God, I'm gonna be obedient. But no, sometimes I need to like trick myself into, okay, you can do this, you could just do this much more, you can just do this much more. And that helps me in my breadcrumb obedient path every once in a while. So I I believe it's true. I believe it's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

And it's like setting up those like mile markers almost like I I I pray that God never asks me to run a marathon. But if I were, yeah. You would need those mile markers, those people standing, like you know, every three miles, maybe. Yes, yes, yes, I need food, I need some water, that's right. Not not not like hecklers, you know what I'm saying? And honestly, in in this walk, right, I I feel like this is maybe a parallel. Like, have you always had like kind of that spirit where you're like, I'm I'm gonna do the thing? How how have you like even started? Like, how did it start for you, Kathy? Like as you were even growing up, have you always had this perseverance? Like, because I was even talking to somebody this morning. I'm like, I feel like I have this like persevering spirit that like is beyond it's so beyond me. So, what does that look like for you? And

Childhood Responsibility And Determination

SPEAKER_00 6:33

how has it looked like for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

That is a very great question, and I have always been determined. I've always been a determined person. My mom was a single mom. My parents, I don't even really ever remember being in a household with both parents. And so I in my mind, I remember the sadness of my mom. I remember the emotional, I remember, remember how hard it was. It seemed like she she was a truly faithful woman, but you could tell worry and and emotions would overwhelm her, even though I mean she gave everything to the Lord. And I saw her do that, but I saw that process too. And in my mind, I was always the mature one. I was the one that I was, I don't really remember being a kid, but I don't miss being a kid. I mean, like I just remember this is what we have to do. We have to do this, and you can. And so now in hindsight, some of that was a performance thing to find security and accolades from humanity versus finding my identity in Christ. So I see some of that, but I don't think it was all bad. I think that it set me up to go, well, I can do that. If God has called me to do it now, I go, I can do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Now go ahead. That's a shirt. I can do that. Yes, yes. And it's I'm in his power now. So now almost I have to get to the point of not saying I got this, you know, God, you've got this. I'm not in control. Yeah, I'm in control of my obedience, you're in control of the outcomes, and that's really where God's working on me now. Of how would you like to see how great things can be if you'll stop trying to just be okay with what you can do on your own? I'm like, am I really brave enough to go, okay, God, I'm trying so hard to be. I'm really trying so hard to be. Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. I'm not in charge of my children. I'm not in charge of the decisions they make, the decisions my grandkids make, my husband makes. I'm in charge of the decisions I make. And that doesn't mean I don't pray for them because I want God, I know He loves them more and He has a better future for them than I would ever be willing to let them go for because I've learned in my life. It comes in the hard times. We learn the most. And it's, I mean, it's that way in life. Think about working out. Do our muscles get stronger by lifting light weights?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

No, it's only if you hold them up for a really long time. Ask me how I know.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

You're still, but you're still your muscles are under tension. Under tension. It might be, it may take you longer, but if you're holding a heavier weight, it takes less. And I think that's how some of the the sad losses in life can be.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, yeah. Tell like so, were you were you the how many children?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

There are two of us. I have a younger sister, and so there are two of us. I'm the oldest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Okay. Because I'm the oldest as well, three girls, and I I feel like that's kind of the role I got put in as well, where it's just like we we do it, I have to keep going, and there's really no other options, right? Yes, yes. There there aren't any options beyond you gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

There's a song in the one of the Disney movies about being the older sister, and it's I don't remember it off the top of my head, but it's very much that you're the responsible one, you gotta do it, keep going. You know, you're the older sister. And I I don't know how that came to be. I don't know if it starts because we're the center of their attention from the beginning, and then, well, I've put all my energy into you, so go do. But, and even as a mother of an older daughter, I tried so hard not to do that, but my husband and I are both firstborn. And so that's what we knew. We knew that perspective. So I don't know. I don't know that it's intentional, I don't know that it's unintentional either. I think it's just the nature. And God uses all of it, doesn't he? Doesn't he make us who we are because of the circumstances we've been through?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yes, and I love, you know, just even when you're saying like I can do it, right? It's it's like a flip the script to I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, right? It's like absolutely through him. So what like I feel like there's a couple different ways we could go here, and I'm just feeling led, you know, you've talked about the hard, the hard weights, right? So some of these hard weights that you've carried, would you be open to sharing maybe some of these journeys that you've been on to bring at today?

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Well, the first one that absolutely I needed to go through that is the most vivid is eight years

Triple Negative Breast Cancer Journey

SPEAKER_02 12:14

ago, I was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer. And we caught it relatively early, but all I heard them say was aggressive and invasive, treat immediately. And it really did go fast. Now, I'll tell you that I was a pseudo-crunchy person, and I really thought, in the ignorance of what I knew about cancer, we just cut that out and we go, and that's it. And I'm gonna keep, I'll leave, live a good lifestyle. I'll start eating all the right, you know, all the things, but that's not how it works. Because when you have certain forms of cancer, there's a really great chance that it's already in other parts of your body. Even if it hasn't grown enough to be even detected, it could be there. So the way God worked out the circumstances, I had just participated in a leadership thing within my town and my city where I had visited the cancer center. And I really felt that's what God led me to do. So I went through chemo. I we learned that our family has the BRCA2 gene, which means you're predisposed. It's a mutation of the genes that makes you predisposed to reproductive cancers. So my mother had been diagnosed with metastatic ovarian cancer that they found in her GI tract just six months before me. So hers was going to be an eternal battle because no, not eternal, only earthly length, because she's completely healed now. But but we knew that there was a chance. You know, how do we both get cancer and it's found this way? So we found out we have the BRCA2 gene. It's hereditary. My sister also has the gene. All three of my children have the gene. And our prayer that we pray over and over now is that the creator of the genetic makeup of human stops with us. This is the end. Yes, that God will be glorified through what we've walked through, but protect our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren from this, the from this. Now, of course, it is thy will be done, Lord, because he can glorify, he can redeem all that he allows. And I I know that to be true, but what a beautiful prayer to know and give him, you're the creator, God, you're bigger, you're bigger than all of these things. So, so through my cancer, I really in my in my time of treatment, in my time of just recovering and resting, I spent time in God's word. And Ephesians 3, 14 through 21 became my touchstone. That was my essence. And basically, it is about the unlimited resources of our Father, that He will empower you with strength so that you will let Christ's love grow deep. Your roots grow deep down into his love. And then after that, it says, and I hope you can understand how deep, how wide, how immense his love is. And I just picture this huge tree. And you know the roots are bigger than the tree that we see, and that's how big his love is. And as our roots grow down into that, we are empowered to then do more than we could ever ask or think that he empowers and accomplishes more than we can imagine through us. Now, all of that comes from trusting in his love. So there was a period of time when I was arguing with God. I had this long dark hair. I mean, I just loved my hair. I thought it made me look youthful. People would think I was my daughter, you know, those things that are just so vanity, vanity, vanity. But I loved it. And so I was negotiating, you know, because I think I have power with God. Oh, anyway. So I'm like, Okay, good deal. God, let me keep my hair. I will give you all of the glory. I will tell everyone that you let me uh what a miracle. You let me keep my hair. And I could hear, not real here, but here in my heart. Trust me. And of course, at the time, I wish I'd have been more awed by that, but I've got okay, okay, I trust you, but do I get to keep my hair? Well, spoiler alert, through every different round of chemo, because my chemo lasted five to six months. Okay, I lost my hair and I lost my hair and I lost my hair. But when it was done, this came back. It's this white blonde, yeah, same exact texture and everything, but the color is just it's very supernatural. I mean, it's amazing to me. So you don't color your hair at all? Nothing, nothing at all.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

This is it, it's like it's like it's really beautiful, it's like shiny and it almost radiant. Yes, like radiant. And I think you vote to him are radiant.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Absolutely. And my crown of glory. I mean, all of those things that are biblical that I'm like, okay, I see what you did there, God. And this is like my shortcut to if I'm starting to doubt, I'm gonna look in the mirror every day. I'm like, oh no. Do you remember what I did that was more than you could have asked or imagined? That I got this too. And so that was the beginning of my faith being a truly I trust you, Lord, no matter what the circumstances look like here on earth. I do trust you because you love me more and you see the bigger plan and you see how you're going to use it to work together for my good and for the blessing of your children. And so I I love that I went through that, if that makes sense, because then I completely had to trust him in the next few years. So three four years ago, no, three years ago, in 2023, my mom lost her

Losing Mom And Daughter

SPEAKER_02 18:09

battle with ovarian cancer, and it was just too much. And it was February of 2023, and she went home to Jesus, and she was an amazing woman, and I I I do miss her so much, but she was 80 years old. She lived life to the fullest, and I know she's just enjoying being with Jesus so much. And then six months later, our 29-year-old daughter, Elena, she's our middle child, was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer, and it was already in multiple parts of her body, and she had been so afraid to be diagnosed that once she was diagnosed, there was this peace and serenity that came over her, where she was like, Mom, I'm not afraid anymore. She God had taken away that tool Satan had used to paralyze her, and she said, I'm walking with Jesus, whether it's for years here on earth, or he will walk with me and I'll be in eternity with him. She was a wife, a mom of two. She had a two-year-old and a three-year-old. And six months later, in February of 24, she went home to be with Jesus also. And so that 12 months was very hard. It was so difficult in the loss. However, I truly was immediately able to go, thank you, God, for those six months. I mean, we knew life was short. There were so many beautiful memories that we made during that time. And I I saw him working in, I mean, the bad stuff is gonna happen. It's going to happen. But I get to do it with Jesus, I get to do it with the Holy Spirit, empowering me to see. I can choose the lens. The name of my book is Look for God, Look for Good, Discovering God in Grief, Celebration, and the Everydays, because He never leaves us. He does not enjoy what we're going through.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Sorry. I interviewed somebody the other day and he's like, You got me crying. I'm like, So sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

No, it's but God is there, He's never leaving us, He's never moving, He is always there. And when I wrote my book, the designer wrote put a hummingbird on the cover, and I just cried when I first saw the cover because I was like, that's it. How many times are those little tiny birds right there? And it takes you like three glimpses to realize they're there.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

And then they flipped away.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Absolutely, but God doesn't do the flitting away, but he is there. We just have to use the right lenses of paying attention, of giving him the thanks for being grateful for his presence in our life. Yeah, I learned through the grief that um he doesn't enjoy our grief either. There's so many verses in the Bible that tell us how he mourns when he loses. And I mean, even Jesus with Lazarus, he knew what was going to happen. And we always focus on the, you know, Jesus wept. And it also says that Jesus was angry, along with watching Mary and her friends in their grief. Okay, that is his humanity. He knew in his deity that he would be raising Lazarus from the dead in just a few minutes. Yet he was there with us, and I feel like he's always there with us in our grief. So the grief and the joy, the joy of knowing this isn't my home. I'm gonna see my mom again, I'm gonna see my daughter again. They are no longer in pain. They are they are in glory with Jesus. And the time to them, it's not the same. You know, we're the ones of us left behind.

unknown 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yes. Oh my gosh. Could you s could you say that last part again? Just

SPEAKER_02 22:34

that when we get I feel like somebody needs to hear that again when we get caught up in the earthly losses that it loses the gratitude of what we have to look forward to especially as believers and and as children of Christ we we don't have any doubt where we're going we don't it's it's assured there's there's nothing that's wishy washy about that in God's truth in his word there's nothing that would make that unsure and those doubts I think are just planted seeds from Satan. And also I think we get wrapped up into what we think we deserve or we what we thought our expectation I mean you know I've heard so many times well you know parents aren't supposed to bury their children. Okay what where does that come from I mean like I don't think that's a truth. I think it's a desire I think it's a wish but I think about okay back in the days of covered wagons you know you'd be in the east and your 15 year old daughter would marry this man and you would put her on this wagon and you would say I pray God is good to you and life is great. And then we never see them again. What happened to their life? I mean I think that from the beginning I I my first pregnancy did not it ended in a miscarriage and I believe at that point God started teaching me the brevity of life and that we can't take life for granted and we can't expect that we're all going to live to a hundred oh ideally how wonderful would that be but personally as I experience more and more loss I think Jesus please come back so we can just all live with eternity there and then we don't have to worry about our physical lifespan we don't have we get to be with you. So I think that it's all a matter of perspective perspective that we can choose what lens we're looking out of? Are we looking in gratitude for what we do have or mourning and longing for what we don't have?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

So good. How like how did you you know just even with your own you know well maybe start with your own journey like was that something that

Gratitude As A Daily Practice

SPEAKER_00 24:49

you like Holy Spirit was kind of developing in you to have a different perspective? Was this something that you brought into this already like the gratitude piece? Because I feel like that is definitely it's a huge key that I've not only in my own life but many that I've talked to you know who are walking through really hard journeys to like literally like grab like sometimes I've had you know parts of my life where it's like thank you for the eraser like and that might be like and just being real like maybe that's the only thing you can come up with like thank you for the person who created the eraser so I can erase my mistakes thank you for the ceiling fan that is keeping me cool in my house. Yes what like how did you how did this come to be for you or did you always have you always been like this I think I've always been a joyous person.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Well I say that but I can remember times when I wasn't so I don't know I remember reading that our perspective and our attitude is a choice when I was a young mom. I don't know if it was something like Norman Vincent Peel or something like it was some secular something and I thought a choice and at that point I remember for a long time I had to just wake up and say this is the day that the Lord has made I will rejoice and be glad in it that could not be circumstantial that could not be dependent on how the day was that couldn't be dependent on if I slept well or the kids were well it had to be factual because there's nothing connected to that verse in the Bible that gives you caveats for opting out I mean like really there's nothing there. So and then just the truth of God's word I mean pray without ceasing give thanks always now that one I've known it and there are times when I would facetiously say something like oh yeah thank you for the headache. I mean you know which we can be snarky sometimes like we we just want you to be real. I am human I am human but I think like everything it just comes with practice. I mean it truly and and I I am every single day I wake up in the morning and I write down everything I was thankful for the day before. Now some people do that at night and I at night try to think of what it's going to be the next day just to kind of solidify it. But there were times particularly in the years of 2023 and 2024 when I would have to have it on my calendar and a reminder pop up that says what are you thankful for to remind me okay I'm thankful that I got out of bed today. Yeah I'm thankful that I've not cried yet I'm thankful that the morning the longing is not as intense and I can remember the day because there really was a cloud of grief that was over me for a good 15 months maybe 18 that I mean I tried everything. I tried alcohol I tried controlling my family you know I like you're only as happy as your happiest kid not true not true that's first of all not your kids' responsibility and second of all doesn't have any grandchildren so they're his kids he knows what they need he's working on their sanctification i i keep going on that one for a little while that that control thing but it was a it was a mechanism for me to avoid feeling it was a mechanism for me to say I I don't want to do this and then we my husband and I went on a three week road trip just got in the car and went west guess what my family was fine without me here they did just fine and I spent time in nature with God I began after a couple of weeks to go oh I am still in here the joyous excitement can coexist with the grief and then it can be larger it can be bigger and I just felt God going just trust me how many times does he tell me that just trust me yeah I still love you as much as I've always loved you before when when everything was peachy keen I love you the same wow so this road trip did you even know where you're going I just gotta know yes did you just hop in the car we had we had two things that were like a week apart and one was in Las Vegas it was

Road Trip Healing And Letting Go

SPEAKER_02 29:56

the comp national conference for nothing but cakes and the other one which is our franchise and the other one was we were meeting in Colorado Springs with our older daughter and her family for some kind of focus on the family adventures and Odyssey anniversary. So we had these two dates and I was like we could fly out and come back fly out and come back and I was like we have freedom we can do this because I'm not in the day to day of my bakery. I have an amazing management team that takes care of that. My husband can do his job from remotely so we were like let's go so we stopped in Sedona and then we went to Las Vegas and then we hiked in Utah and then we went to Snow Mass where my daughter and son-in-law and family were there with his parents and then we went to Colorado Springs and then we came back and it was beautiful it was hot it was refreshing it was recovery and it was the beginning of you know what we're gonna be okay we're gonna make it through this and we'll never be the same but that's also when God started saying now go tell everybody this would have been in July and August of 2024.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

So Elena would have died in February so this was August really of uh 2024 where he was like you've got a story to tell now you because you know sometimes when you have a positive attitude when you're choosing that perspective regularly people think oh well you don't know what I've been through and there are times when I want to go oh I don't think we want to compare because you've had that a lot oh yeah oh yeah I get that quite a bit of oh I didn't know that you know like I just they just assume that great circumstances equate great attitude and I don't I don't think it has to be that way that's the reason I wrote the book because I got so much kind of your reaction when I tell you the story you know you get excited I'm a breast cancer survivor oh yeah I'm so proud of you and then you say well my mom and my daughter and then they they don't it's a lot they're sad they're sad and they don't know how to react and I'm like it's okay yeah it's okay because I see how God used it in my life and I see how I can be grateful for the times that we did have to get I'm don't you think that the mother who's given birth to a stillborn child would have liked to have had 29 years with their daughter yes yeah I mean that that's such a completely different perspective right yes right and like you I had I got saved from addiction I had two miscarriages right after and was basically told I probably wouldn't be able to have a kid so I look at my almost 18 year old almost 21 year old every day and I'm like you're a miracle so I can look to kind of like this perspective thing right where it's like look what he did before and there's things that we are pressing in for and praying into whether for ourselves or others that you have to kind of go back for a moment or look at something that he miraculously did right wouldn't you say wouldn't you say like to I call it reminded to remember because we don't want to like sit in the past. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

But we also have to see how far he's taken us absolutely absolutely I I call those I'm I'm really big into documenting God's faithfulness because we are going to need to remember it. Not everybody gets this bright bright bright white hair on their head to hear but if we're writing down his faithfulness there will be days when we are doubting him like even up until like six months ago if a doctor I don't like them very much but if I had to go to a doctor blood work if if the doctor paused for just a second before he tells you your blood work it could have just been a catch in his throat but Satan would use it as a prick of doubt of oh my it's more bad news oh my and no I that's a lie Satan is a liar that's all he knows how to do he loves to distort and he loves to distract he loves to disconnect you herd cull you from the herd I'm not going to listen to that. I'm going to listen to the word of God and I'm going to look back on his faithfulness because you know as hard as my life has been I mean you know we could feel sorry for myself for the things I went through in my childhood in my adulthood all the God has never been unfaithful. There is not one time that I have had reason to doubt his presence his provision or his love for me ever. And that's because I'm unworthy of all the great things I've gotten thank you God for the great things because I don't deserve them I can be extremely self-centered part of why I try to control people but you know well that's a whole different story that God's working on but it's his faithfulness and if we write it down and we document it what what was the word you used? Remind I call it reminded to remember. Reminded to remember I love that yeah and I think that's exactly what we do. I just have to write it down so I don't forget.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Totally I mean as we get older as I get older like my filing cabinets are full so I have to do a lot of shredding and you know in here but we we do have to remember like I have I don't know where do you keep things in a journal are you doing it electronically I I do it I do journal but a lot of people do it electronically and I don't have a problem with you having notes on your phone.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I mean that that's easy to search and to find and to know that you know it's still there.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

So yeah I do both and I've I've even suggested to people who I don't know it um I'll just plug it and I'm not like affiliated with this but it's called journey. I call it my journeying journaling app it's called journey on its own but you can plug in pictures you can put links you can put videos and it's kind of fun because when you said you know Ephesians 14 through 21 what I like to do I'm I like to see him in the details so I'm constantly like just I'm seeing little God winks on license plates so the last two days literally yesterday twice. A lot of times I'll see different ones but yesterday two times I saw 320 Ephesians 320 I just think of 320 Ephesians 320 yes including driving my friend to her little birthday gathering and parking facing a car that was facing us with the license plate 320 and I said look at that that was like her life verse. Oh and then today on my drive I only saw 320 again. So 320 three times in the last 24 hours so it's like yes I want to capture that and put it in my little journeying journal.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Absolutely absolutely that's a solid win. Yeah you you've got that one deny that right I you're almost being hit over the baseball hitting hit over the head with a baseball bat I mean like I think there's nothing to doubt in that and I it's his assurance assurance for us to be empowered by him to do more to do the the most through him and I just love it.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah so I would love for you to share kind of this even this journey into writing a book did you ever think you would write a book

Writing The Book Through Grief

SPEAKER_00 38:04

was this part of his plan for you when you were literally like I'm gonna write a book when I get older no as a matter of fact I probably laughed at people who said that I'm like oh I mean I didn't like to write I mean I can remember any English professor or or teacher that I had would be laughing at the fact that I've written a book because I was it was not my thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

I I would much rather plagiarize I didn't but it was a it would have been easier for me to do. Okay. But no I did not but God just whittled at me I even had the nerve to say at my book lunch party in February which we did on February 16th by the way which is the same day that we laid Elena's earthly body to rest and the year before my mother had actually passed away on that day. So February 16th is now a redeemed day because we did our book lunch on that day. But anyway on that day I said I'm not an author and since then since then God's like well I'm gonna I'm gonna let you stop saying that I think that you need to accept whatever I've created you to be and so let's go with that. But I've seen just in the people who've shared the book with so many people and then I hear second and third away from me people I would have never known who've been blessed inspired by knowing oh that's how I felt that's how I am and you know you and I were talking earlier about the different people you've had on your podcast and I've always thought that my book and my podcast are for women but I have a lot of men who read and who listen to my podcast and there's a part in there where I talk about the control and they'll say you know I have a beef to pick with you over this control thing. And then I'll say well you know it really is an illusion right and they're like yeah but I'm not ready to work on that one yet. So there are different parts of the book it's not just about grief. It really is in celebration which can I tell one cool story and I want to tell it because you brought up as many stories as you want. After my daughter's passing my younger son her younger brother they were really close and he was an athlete

The Marathon Memorial And Redemption

SPEAKER_02 40:30

in college I mean he's always been a hockey player. So I I just felt God say you guys need to do something together that gets you physically moving through the grief again. It it may not work but you know a miracle or anything but you're gonna you need it so I signed us up for this marathon that is in December in the Dallas area every year. And I had only done a half marathon once before with Elena 10 years before. And so I thought this will be honoring to her let's do it together. This will be great. And I mean it turned into a thing in that my son and his wife I walked the half marathon my daughter-in-law ran her first one and then my son did the ultra marathon because you know 26 miles is not enough you got to do like 31 or 32. I can't even remember how many he did but he did the ultra because he's that kind of overachiever. But they decided okay let's use this as a memorial fundraiser and so they raised money for breast cancer genetic fund awareness. I can't even remember the name of the group I'm so sorry for that. But so that became purposeful for them. And then the right before the race my daughter Elena had been an artist and she had clothing patterns she had a children's line of clothing she had artwork I mean all of these things. So we printed one of her patterns and then like put it on different parts like I put mine on my cat brim. My son put it on his sleeve my daughter in law had hearts all over hers. So that was our honoring her day of and then as we ran the race that day it was melancholy but it was also because it was misting most of the day and but it was also joyful and a time for each of us to spend time with the Lord you know just really enjoying. So we finished of course a lot faster than Nate did. And so we're standing there at the finish line and the way they do it when you're going across the finish line is they'll yell out a name as you're crossing they know who it is and where they're from and so they so we already knew when Nate was coming we were tracking him on the app and so he he comes around the corner and he's about to make that straightaway in front of us and they are yelling Nate Rogers from blah blah blah blah blah and they go Nate Rogers from wait is that Nate and Nate started sprinting that whole last straightaway and they said wow Nate what a strong finish and that was descriptive of how Elena lived her life how she finished it was like the exclamation point on how God used this in all of our lives to process things to honor Elena to spend time with him figuring out how this loss fits into our lives how how do we hang on to this in a way that fits in with God's plan versus just trying to throw the grief away you know like I don't want to carry that I don't want that but God will make it to a where it fits it fits in a part of your life that can be used by him and I just loved that illustration and none of it was orchestrated it was just a little prick here and there. Huge God wink right absolutely we even have a picture of us with people in the background and on their t shirts from their race the group that it said that God is with the brokenhearted and it's just I mean God God and looking for him and finding him over and over in that He redeems that he gives us a reason to celebrate, to win, to be thankful for what we've had. We don't have to stay sad about the things that we will never experience. And just to see how he redeems it and uses us in each other's lives. But ultimately, he's the one that gives us the comfort. He's the one that provides the glimpses into see, he's here. He's right here with you. He never left.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

I'm listening to you, and I I'm thinking of somebody specifically. Like I do this for the one, and I I cannot wait to share this with her. I love that. I cannot wait to share. It's it's gonna be very impactful. So do you have more books coming now?

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Well, I will eventually, and I have them in my head. I'm sticking with this one for a little while just to promote. And what I was gonna say, the other thing I've seen from a book is when we're pricked in our heart to give somebody a book or share a podcast with them, we know that God's gonna use his timing for when they need to find it. You know, this book may sit on somebody's shelf for months or a year, and they're gonna find it, and it is still the true word of God, and he will use it in the perfect timing because we know that's just how he works. And telling my story is not always the same. But if it's in a book, then okay, that's why I might can be an author if God wants me to share stories that are accessible in his timing on a bookshelf, then I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

So do you feel more comfortable now saying I'm an author?

SPEAKER_02 46:19

I do, I really do, I really do. And and now I'm kind of almost a little giddy, excited about whatever's next. You know, what what is the next thing he wants me to share? And who do I get to share my story with? Because watching hope come back into people's eyes to see a just a glimmer of a change of perspective that you do not have to live your, this is not your identity. You are not the victim. You get to choose that it's part of who you are because you walked through it, but it is not who you are. Your identity is you are a child of God, loved beyond measure and redeemed for eternity. That he wants you to live life to the fullest here. He doesn't want you to wait till you get to heaven. And then to me, when we do that, then we we bond more in community. We help each other through those times, we share our stories, we lift each other up, we give each other hope by going, hey, somebody did it. Maybe I can see that too.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yes, yes. It's almost like you're you're literally passing on a torch to somebody to help them keep going, right? Absolutely. I love that. I like that imagery. That's good. It's like you you keep the fire going. Like we can't burn out, right? Yes. So we can keep burning for the other ones. You you did you shared so much goodness here. I do want to ask one more question. Okay. Um, so at the end of every podcast, well, first of all, I want to ask how people can get in touch with you. This

Identity, Encouragement, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 47:57

would be the best way for people to reach out to you because I'm sure people are gonna be like, How do I, how do I keep in touch with this beautiful lady?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

The Kathy Rogers.com. So, and Kathy's with a K and Rogers does not have a D. I'm like Mr. Rogers neighborhood. And so that's the best way. You can find the podcast there. You can find links to get the book there. You can contact me. So it it's a great way. Or Instagram is the Kathy Rogers too. So I am not great at social media. I just really am not good at it. So I just hope God uses it for whatever. And but if that's your way, I will pay attention. If that's the way you want to reach me, I'll I'll respond. So those are two, those are the two best ways you can find.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Okay. Sounds good. And I'll be sure to link in the show notes for you guys too if you didn't catch it. But, you know, like I said, I do this for the one. So would you just get in mind that one that's listening in today? Is there any other words of encouragement or wisdom that you'd like to share with this one to help them keep going on their journey and and be released into greater hope?

SPEAKER_02 49:09

The one thing that I always want every single person to know is how much God loves you. You are not the mistakes you've made. You are not the performance that you are trying to keep up with. You're not the hopelessness, the sadness. You are a child of God, and all you need to do is to cry out to him, Lord, help me. And if you're maybe you're you are a Christian, maybe you know who Christ is, but you don't get it. Help my unbelief, Lord. I mean, that is a verse in the Bible, in Mark, where help my unbelief, and he will. He will meet you where you are. And there is a peace that comes from that that I can't even explain. But knowing that that's who your identity is in, it releases you from so many performance traps that we catch ourselves in. And it's not always easy. I don't think it's ever easy, actually, but it's simple. It's simple to just keep crying out, Lord, I don't know, Lord. And then I think, like Kristen said, those things will start popping up. The 320s in your life will start popping up and things start lining up to go, okay, that's not the first time. I need to figure out what God He's He's He's telling me He's there. What do I need to do?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

So yeah. So good. Well, you are a treasurer. I'm so thankful to have you on. We'll probably have to have you on again at some point, I'm sure. Love to um so I would love to just end with my anchoring verse for Hope Unlocked. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound

Anchoring Verse And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 50:58

in hope. I love abound. Romans 15, 13. So thank you, Kathy, for being on today. I will be back with another episode next week. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Kathy. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Bye.