From Saving Souls to Chasing Sinners: Burnout, Faith & Life in the FBI with Eric Robinson

Pastor-turned-FBI agent Eric Robinson shares the hidden cost of carrying everyone else’s pain—and the burnout that led him from the pulpit to Quantico. He opens up about church planting, daily stress headaches, SWAT operations, high-stakes investigations, and the emotional toll of working around darkness. Through it all, one principle became essential: reserve judgment and stay curious. Eric reveals how calm rapport can disarm conflict, why leaders need safe relationships, and what retirement taught him about identity beyond a title or badge. 

Eric's contact info:

LinkedIn

Eric's book (coming Fall 2026):

Irreverend: From Saving Souls to Chasing Sinners in the FBI

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

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Welcome And Meet Eric Robinson

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Eric Robinson to the show today. So excited to have him here. For those of you who can't see, we're gonna have we have this on video as well, but I have this really clear picture of a man with an FBI sign. It's a sign. What does it say?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

That's my Father's Day gift. That is my book.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Which will come out in October.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

We're gonna learn more about this. I love it. So I'm excited to have him here today. Before we get into your story and the ways that God is moving your life right now, would you just share a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I am a few months retired from 24 years in the FBI, where I investigated drug cartels, gangs, public corruption, organized crime, crimes against children, financial crimes, and national security. I spent 15 of those years as a SWOT operator and also a firearms and tactical instructor. Prior to that, I was a Baptist pastor.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Wow. Okay. So we've got a lot to talk about today. We have a lot to talk

College Faith And A Surprise Proposal

SPEAKER_01 1:49

about. Okay. So I want to I want to back it up. Take us back to 18. You know, a lot of times when you're 18, people are like, so what are you going to do with your life? Where are you going? What are you are you going to college? What are you what are you planning? You know, at that time of like, I don't know. I look at people at 18 and I'm going, do you really think you should be making these decisions? Tell us where you were at at that time.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I was at Miami University of Ohio and I was studying journalism. So I like to write. I thought that was a good path to go in. And along the way, I I had grown up in a in a church home. We went every week, not in a demanding way. It's that was just what the Robinson family did. And so we're glad for that. As I got to college, my faith became a little more personal. I got into Bible studies involved with Campus Crusade for Christ, now crew, and went on a mission trip the summer after my junior year. So I went to Turkey and did some work there. And by the time I came back, I thought, okay, I'm gonna I'm going to go into ministry. And coincidentally, I had purchased a ring at the Turkish bazaar as a promise for me to go back to Turkey as a missionary. So going into senior year, I come upon four cute little Christian girls at the university sitting at a frozen yogurt shop. And I knew them all. And I come and I pop my ring down on the table and I said, Who wants to marry me and go to Turkey? And this curly-headed gal picks it up, puts it on her finger, and she says, I will. And I was thinking, not you. You've got a boyfriend. I was talking to the single ones over here. Oh my gosh. And two years later, I put a slightly better ring on her finger and we got married.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Okay, curly hair or the other one of the other ones?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

No, no, no. The one the one who picked up the ring accepted my non-proposal proposal. And so Becky and I have been married for 33 years now.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

What? First of all, congratulations. Second of all, how long did you know her?

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Oh well, I had known her from college, and then one day as she was still in college and I was uh out, she wrote me a letter and let me know that uh her boy she had broken up with her boyfriend, and I I was so sad for her for that. That was terrible. So I began writing her much more regularly. And okay, and boy, we got married. I think she was 20 21, and I was 23.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Wow. Okay, slam the ring down on the table. How quick were you were you guys getting married?

SPEAKER_02 4:34

And actually, oh this was that was just you know something as a joke. And then Becky, I think we started dating about a year and a half later. But it again, it started with writing letters and just getting to know each other. Old fac like letters, actual like for real letters, letters. There's a box of them.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

People like actually have you guys are young, there's paper and pencils. Were you using cursive even too?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

No, no, I wasn't. Okay, or she wouldn't have known what I was saying, it would have been so sloppy.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, okay. Awesome. Wow, I've never heard anybody do this before. It's really amazing. And to be together for 33 years, that's you know, huge. So many marriages, like we look at our world right now, they're not long standing like they used to be in future or past generations, I should say. Would you say?

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, it it's when I used to be a youth pastor, I would tell the kids before you're married, be as selfish as you can be with your potential partner. Which means you're not saying, Oh, I know he's a bad guy, but he'll change, or yes, she's got these. You you're gonna be fully selfish. And then as soon as you're married, now you turn that around where you're giving to the other. So it there's a lot, there's a lot to work through in 33 years. There, there's a lot to pull out of that.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

For sure. Wow. Okay, so this happened, and you're you're still in school. Were you like what what was your your your next path looking like?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Uh my next path is I changed majors to religion, studied Islam. To understand, I was meant to meaning to go to uh Muslim countries. Wife and I get married a couple years out, and then we were planning to be missionaries together to a Muslim country, family issues with her family, being a little harsh between all that and what we had going on. We thought, yeah, this might be not a wise idea to go overseas with what we're dealing with. So we stayed stayed stateside, and I then I went through the usual path of youth pastor, assistant pastor, and then I was a senior pastor before the FBI.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Okay. So that's the path is youth.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

There, there's a yeah, that that's the usual one. Okay, guys come out, you know. I number one, you're young, gotta learn what you're doing, but yeah, when you're 23, 24, 25, you know, starting starting to learn from other folks.

Church Planting And Radical Welcome

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Okay. So I don't want to I don't want to pass too quickly into pastor to FBI. Tell us a little bit more about that time, you know, as a pastor and and how how did that like did you love it? Because you have a very different, you know, the next path is very different.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

So tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Well, I was in Western New York as the assistant pastor, and the church said, Hey, we'd like to plant another church off of this one in the neighboring town of Jamestown, New York. And I said, I'd love to be able to do that. And so I went through the the process of the Baptist denomination vetting me. And we started a church, took a small core group of people, and said, Here's what we're gonna start. And I I immediately told that group, we're gonna be reaching out to people. And I gave them a flinch test, and I said, You need to be able to welcome people coming to the church who aren't dressed like church people should be, yeah, you know, wearing a Deaf Leopard concert t-shirt, tattoos, piercings, gay couples interracial, you smell alcohol in their breath. You need to be have no flinch and just say, I'm so glad you're here. And people got that idea. Like, if God was gonna judge us, he was gonna judge us for erring on the side of grace of just welcoming people in. And I emphasize that we're gonna take our time, we're not doing altar calls because this is a big deal. So I I I emphasize the the parable of the treasure in a hidden field, where Jesus says, Kingdom of God's like a treasure hidden in a field. Man comes upon it, sees its value, so he sells everything he has to buy that field. And my point is you people are giving up everything, their old way of life, maybe relationships, in order to say that is worth it. And that's not coming in one sermon, and it shouldn't. And that's not coming in one, you know, pamphlet to show them. So we're gonna show people you're safe here. Please keep coming back, please keep learning what this life is about.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, awesome. Well, I would love to hear maybe a testimony of maybe one of those people. I I have a book that I read recently, maybe within last year, called Rag Muffin.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

I love it. And there's a movie too. I can't remember the the band, the guy that started the band. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Rich Mullins. Rich Mullins.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

I remember the day he died.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

So like such a good movie, such an amazing book. Would you mind sharing maybe a testimony of of somebody who came in and was completely changed?

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah. So we we I wanted to make the messages accessible. I I wanted to make them where if you weren't familiar with the Bible, this is gonna make sense. And we came at it with repetitive manners of with the drama. It's gonna have the same message as the songs, same as the message. And so a guy named Brian came to church, and he he was a teacher in the high school, but he's a he was a Dartmouth graduate, so brilliant guy. And he was great. He just came up to me, and we were very similar age, and he said, Yeah, I am interested. I want to find out what this is about. And he was exactly what I was hoping to see. He goes, I think this is what I should be doing, but I want to make sure. And I said, Great, yeah, let can may I disciple you. This is what discipling looks like. We'll go through, you know, I'm I'll show you some stuff. You asked your questions, and gradually he came to a point and he says, Okay, yeah, this is right, this is the truth. And so, you know, that was that was just fun. Like we were doing the big thing, and then you know, I got to do the individual thing at places as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah. So through your time like pastoring, I guess I would say, like when you're a young child, did you ever think you'd be pastor? Second of all, through that walk as being a pastor, how many years were you pastoring?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

I I was in ministry for about a dozen years, and so that was in different phases. I was senior pastor for five or six.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Okay. So I know we will we'll get into the FBI, but before you, you know, you you obviously grew some giftings. You we all have giftings that we were, you know, God just gave to us to come in to share with others. But do you feel like there was things that were cultivated that prepared you for your next step through that?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, uh there's one thing I noticed that there's always pastors who have gifts or just abilities and emphases. There's the ones who are great great speakers, uh, but but garbage one-on-one. And you know, others who really are fine administrators, but you know, we're gonna let that pastor speak. And so the the the give and take for me is I worked well with people, and also I'm I I get burnt out dealing with people. So it that was the tough thing, is like I can do this. I I took a nap every Sunday afternoon because I was just wiped out from from preaching and shaking hands. Um so I think I probably got that from my mom, although she's much more an intro uh uh extrovert than I was, but I still could use some of those just speaking and connecting abilities, which definitely came into play in the FBI.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Oh, good. Yeah, because I it sounds like you kind of maybe operate like me a little bit. I call myself a book-ended introvert. So I feel like the beginning part of my day, like I need to be by myself, I can pour it all day long, and then the end of the day, it's like everybody leave me alone.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Well, and and and Susan Kane writes about that in her book, that it's not yes or no, introvert, extrovert. It there's uh there's grades. And I think the best way that she describes it is you you're like, okay, I'm I'm full now. Yeah. And so you and I go to a party and you might get full faster than I do, but we're both getting full before 10 p.m.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Right. Yep. I love that.

Pastor Burnout And Finding Safe People

SPEAKER_01 13:38

What would you say? You know, I I feel like I don't know what it is lately, but I just keep kind of feeling like a lot of people are burning out. What would you say to, you know, looking back as a pastor? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people pulling on you, right? What would you say to a pastor, maybe who's like, yeah, I'm I'm feeling that? Like, how can they, you know, create boundaries, or what would you say to them? What would you say to yourself back then? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Well, the whole reason I went into the FBI is because nobody did go back in time and talk to me. I I I was incapable of separating myself from other people's problems, even like and they was nothing uh unique or unusual. Yeah, but I and then I also did not have anyone that I could interact with and discuss. So I I was fairly young, you know, in late 20s, early 30s, yeah, new at being a senior pastor, feeling like I had to hold a facade of I'm perfect, I'm good, I have no vices, I'm always happy. And you know, that obviously was manufactured by me, but also not completely, because I wasn't coming up with that idea wholly on my own. There is some type of expectation in the church from people like, hey, pastor's got it all together, and you know, and then I just amplified it. So I would say, you know, you need to find people who are safe.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

And sometimes they're there are other ministers, and then sometimes they're just another godly man who can take what you're saying and not have judgment if you're like, hey, I'm having real problems with lust, depression, anger, whatever it is. Like, yep, you're a human being.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, absolutely. So that that's huge. I think that's a lot of but what I've been just kind of sensing is that you know, we all need people, safe people, neutral people that can listen, can maybe ask questions, help you walk through, you know, each step through each week, you know, because it's it's a lot pouring out, especially for people who pour out a lot. Like we need people pouring back into us too. So thank you for sharing that. So let's let's talk more about this massive transition. I'm like, I I can't wait to hear like the that that moment of, you know, I'm it's Sunday, I just got done preaching a sermon. Like what tell us, like when was this? What what year was this? What happened?

SPEAKER_02 16:19

It it was October of 2000, and I had been struggling for two years with stress-related headaches every single day. Every single day. And it was because of what we just discussed. And I, you know, I'm seeing doctors, I'm taking medication, nothing's working. And I finally got to a point where it wasn't like one Sunday, I don't recall. Okay, but I'd been I'd been fighting it for so long, and I knew I either need to change or my body is going to something's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Because every day I have headaches, my body is trying to tell me to stop, and I'm going, oh no, I can push through. Like at some point, it's gonna go, oh, guess what? Now we're gonna do this.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

And so I told my wife I got to find a job with less stress, so I joined the FBI. It's like and and and the day I got accepted, headaches left.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Okay, tell us like what I've never talked to anybody who who's

Joining The FBI And Quantico Training

SPEAKER_01 17:25

joined the FBI. Like, what does it look like to join the FBI? Do you put in an application? You're like, I've been a pastor. Like I'm qualified.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Like, well, what does it look like? Yeah, this is it's it's a little different now than it was then because the the internet was just a babe at the time, but it was enough where I could download the forms. Yeah, but you know, it starts with an application. You have to have to be an agent, there's many other positions, but to be a guy carrying a gun, you have to have at least a bachelor's degree. I I had that as well as a master's. And then if they say, Yep, you look like a good candidate, then you come back for a test as it's like tech taking the SAT. I take that test and I'm like, At least I tried. And then they call and they call me back and I go, okay, great. And then and then from there I felt, okay, this is more in my hands because then it was written test, oral exam. All right, I got this, and then fit test. Well, the only thing that helped me with those headaches was running. So, you know, I'm in shape, no problem. Okay, physical background investigation. Hey, I'm a pastor, that's gonna go fine. And then finally the polygraph. And again, even though a man of the cloth, holy smokes, worst experience. Like my pants were soaked from sweat. It just nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Wow. So, what like what kind of questions do they ask you? I'm curious. Well, they have a hair. Yes, you're like, What?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Well, so here's the thing. I go through and he's like, Well, let's take this again. There's some issues. Oh no, now I'm more nervous. Second time, well, we've got some hiccups. By the third time, he's like, he says, Well, we're getting a hang up here on you, uh, on the question of whether you are an agent for a foreign government. And I go, Oh, okay, all right then. If that's your issue, now I'm now I'm at ease because I'm not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Wow. Well, actually, you kind of were you're you're like a kingdom citizen, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Well, I wasn't trying to bring down America. Yeah, I wasn't trying to bring bring the country down, though.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah, wow. Okay, so next step, you're you're through the polygraph, then then what happens?

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Then we find a spot. They say, hey, this is the class you're gonna be in. My last sermon in the church was Easter 2002. The next Sunday I was in Quantico for the FBI Academy. The Sunday after that, I preached in the chapel at the FBI Academy because they didn't have a chaplain and they asked me to fill in.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Oh, that is so cool. Wow. What did what did the church think of your decision? Like what did what was the they understood.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

I I mean, it just there's a point where a couple people knew that I was struggling, and they're not gonna hold that against me.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

I tried to work with them as much as we could to say, hey, you know, let's set it up so that there's somebody to take over afterwards. And so we worked together on that to find a predecessor to follow on from there.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Awesome. So what what was Quantico like? Is that how you say it? Quantico?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Quantico.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

What was that like?

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Uh well, so I'm not only learning what law enforcement is like, but I'm also learning what the FBI is like. And it's it's a huge ancient institution. I spent 24 years there. I think I figured out 75% of it during that time. So there's a lot to take in. Just learn. I never handled a gun, so here I am, you know, learning to show you.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Nope. Oh my gosh. And then I became a firearms instructor, you know, 10 years, 12 years in.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Wow. This is so fascinating to me. How long was the training then?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

At the time it was four months. It fluctuates a bit, but it's always around four months. And we're getting legal training, defensive tactics, which is handcuffing and fighting, firearms, PT tacticals. So we're doing scenarios. Well, I'm trying to think what else. But you know, and then you're rotating through the days of having the different stuff. And you know, you can only flunk one test or or not pass like at 80%, one test, second one you're out. You know, you gotta keep your nose clean. Again, all this was easy. Wasn't too tough.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

So, how many people like didn't make it through then? One like percentage wise.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

From my class, one was out on the second day because she couldn't pass the fit test. Another one got tossed because he flunked a couple tests. Another guy left like two weeks before we graduated because he's just like, I don't think this is for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Really? Was there any time during your training that you were questioning at all?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

No, it felt good and it felt right. And if anything, I was just amazed that they're taking a chance on me that this is great. Like this, it wasn't like the FBI was always a dream, but like when I got in, I thought, oh my goodness, this is remarkable. Who wouldn't want to be in the FBI?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So you felt like you almost like obviously you kind of went through your life to get to this place, and you're like, this is where I'm supposed to be. It did feel much you never would have planned it, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

No. No, and and and what's what's interesting is while I was trying to learn what this thing is about, I'm skipping rounds off the pavement because I don't know how to shoot yet. I had a head start on so many other people because spending 12 years in ministry and learning to connect, learning to listen, drawing people out. Now we got the field of like I got a head start on you guys now because I I know how people work. I know how to draw them out, and that's a big part of what we have to do.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah, and you you were also like welcoming to everybody. It wasn't just you know suits and ties and dress people, it was you know, everybody. So you had an experience of working with them and then coming into the real world, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah,

Grace Under Pressure In Interrogations

SPEAKER_02 23:39

yeah. Although at the same time, uh I my dad used to tell me, like, Eric, you don't understand that you know, you're isolated, you're sheltered, there's a lot out there. And in response to me saying, hey, this is what the Bible says and how we should live, and he's like, eh, there's a lot of gray. And then I get out into the real world and I'm like, dang it, my dad was right. Because, you know, I was in a homogeneous group in church wherever I went. Like, even if there was a rich person and a poor person or a black person or an Asian, like it was pretty much homogeneous. And then later I'm interrogating a black gang member who's killed two people, and that's not a realm I thought of. And then another time I'm driving a 15-year-old teen prostitute around to show us where she has engaged in sex acts so that we can try to charge these guys. And and meanwhile, she says, you know, I could use a cigarette, and my partner's looking at me like, hey man, she's 15. And I go, she's 15 and she does worse. So that's how I found myself smoking cigars in a parking lot with a 15-year-old prostitute to try to build rapport. Because I'm gonna do that to hopefully get some convictions.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah. Okay, so you probably can't share obviously details, or maybe you can, I don't know. But like, what was one of the most challenging cases that you ever like had to walk through? Because I, you know, we go back to the pasturing and you had a hard time separating yourself from the people. Did you find yourself having that that same because I can't imagine? Like, I I think I was thinking about it today. I'm like, there's so much evil in this world, and I have such a hard time. Like, I I want to see rainbows and butterflies. I just wish everybody got along and everybody would just be nice to each other, you know. Like, so how did you separate yourself from that coming into this? And like, what was the most challenging you know, scenario for you that you had to walk through?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

There are there are many that were difficult, like dealing with kids who were victims, that's tough. And then you're now you're confronting the criminals who are sex offenders, and I'd have so many people say, Yeah, I don't know how you deal with them. I just put a bullet in their head. And I think, yeah, I'm gonna get them. I'm gonna get them by being kind and non-judgmental. So, you know, many of these sex offenders, I don't have to tell them they're disgusting because they already think that of themselves, but they're driven against what they want to give into what they want. And so then when I would come in and I the judgment wouldn't would be in the courtroom. I'm gonna leave it for that. And and to get the higher judgment there, I'm gonna treat you like a human being. And that so often caught them off guard because they you know, they thought they're gonna be yelled at and told they're disgusting, and I would just find something that's relatable. So when this man would tell me, this 27-year-old man I arrested told me how the the boy he assaulted, who is 13, that he loved him, I can identify with that. Not being in love with a 13-year-old boy, but but being in love and wanting to express love. And so that's that's now what I'm gonna hold on to instead of thinking you're a monster, you've done something monstrous, but you're a person, and I'm going to catch you off balance by not reacting, just like in the church, just like I taught my congregants. Like you tell me that this is what you did to him.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

So good.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

I'm not I'm not getting angry, I'm not getting disgusted. I'm just curious and drawing you out.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Did you ever find yourself, you know, like you kind of you had poker face, but do you ever find yourself like your inner self-just kind of stirring like the anger? Did you ever find yourself kind of like with this paradox of face blank bias really incredible?

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I mean, there's things that I might deal with later with friends, but otherwise, you know, I knew what our job was, and I've I knew that being successful in it was much better than showing that disgust. And so part of it was I'd been there a few times now. I started out working drugs and then gangs, and so right out the bat, I'm working with some real dirty stuff. So, you know, that got me baptized into it very quickly. And now as I went through the years, like, okay, this is what it's like. And and I saw a parallel that people in the church would come to me and say, Pastor, I've I've done this wrong thing. But they're but they're saying, Please help me repent. I need to, I need to, I don't want to be that person. Yeah, and then the criminals were ones who are like, Yep, me too. Here we go. I'm all in. And we had to come in to forcibly make them repent to because they weren't gonna change on their own. So we had to come in and say, All right, we're you're gonna turn around. But anybody on this side could have been on this side too, if just allowed to keep traveling down that path.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Wow, I've never thought about that. Did you ever like help somebody have kind of a come to Jesus moment?

SPEAKER_02 29:50

So I once had to do a post-arrest interrogation of a pastor who was involved in a child sex trafficking ring. And I had a very literal come to Jesus message for him where I had all the evidence, I'm studying that, I'm preparing because I want to be professional, but also I'm gonna give you some Bible verses on reckoning with your sins, getting getting right with God and all this stuff. And as I started the interrogation and had told him what I used to do, he goes, Hey man, I'll talk to you, but we're not bringing Jesus into this. And that was emblematic of his life. That this was a guy we're gonna bring Jesus into Sunday. Here's me preaching the man having sex with a teenage girl. Yeah, Jesus ain't in that. And if we're gonna talk about that, these these lives are split. So I tried with him. But he's spending he is spending the rest of his life in prison now.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Have you ever had a a chance to like go back and visit anybody? Like that you were I don't know if that's even a thing that can happen, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

I'm usually we finish with trial or a change of plea, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

And rarely does it come back around that we have any type of contact with these people. I'd I had contact from one kid who was likely to be a mass shooter, but his contact was harassment and threats. Most of the time, guys are on their way and we don't see much more. I did have one man I arrested in Chicago in possession with a tent to distribute cocaine, and he said to me, Look, I'm not gonna argue with you about the charges, but I wasn't selling any, I was using it. And you guys arresting me saved my life. Like I'd be dead soon because I use so much cocaine. This is the best thing that could happen to me.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Wow. Wow. I mean, it's it's incredible. Did you ever find yourself? I mean, do you have do you have moments where you you could have lost your life too?

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Oh yeah, many people.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Oh yeah. Tell us maybe about a situation, you know, where if you can, you don't yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

On the SWAT team, we're

SWAT Standoffs And Terror Threat Calls

SPEAKER_02 32:29

called to Youngstown, Ohio area where the night previous a woman had a mental health break and had gone around the apartments waving a gun at people. Police are called. When the police come, she points a gun at the police and then closes her door. They retreat, SWAT team comes, and she is what's referred to as a barricaded subject. So if she's not going to bring harm to anyone, we're gonna let her sit, but we've got to be ready. And with her was her 10-year-old son. So our team relieves the previous SWAT team starting in the morning, and we are taking up garden apartment down the hall. So she's on this end, and we're over here. Everybody in position, myself and seven other operators in that apartment, ready to go if we have to. Snipers outside the windows. Meanwhile, negotiators are coming in and we're working with them hand in glove. Like in the past, there was you know animosity working against each other, but they were they were part of our team. So two negotiators, both are agents, and they're trying to talk with this woman who's not sane, and all along she's broadcasting on Facebook Live as well. And her son looks scared, but not like crying or anything. And the the impetus for us, the trigger was if she threatened her child or if she fired a shot, then we'd make entry. Meanwhile, we're letting the negotiators try to talk her out. They had sent a robot down to talk through her door so they weren't just yelling down the hall. Yeah, she didn't like the robot and fired a shot through the door. And I look back at my team leader and I go, That was a shot. Are we going? And she had said, if anybody tries to come in here, bring body bags, because I'll kill you. And I remember thinking, not that I was afraid, but that I was very sobered, and I might get shot, and that's probably gonna hurt.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And and the the entry was narrow and tricky, and we were gonna be hung up, and that's referred to as a fatal funnel, and myself and her others were gonna get shot. We instead negotiate, talked to the negotiators, and decided, look, she's thrown off, let's back off the robot and see how she responds. That went fine. We stood down, and then the end of the day, we were relieved by another team. Okay five minutes after we're relieved, a couple hundred yards away in a parking lot, we're pulling off sweaty gear from a long day in the summer, and again, five minutes from being relieved, two shots ring out. One was hers, and one was a sniper.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

On you.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

The other team's sniper shot her.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Oh, shot her. Yes, after she I thought you meant that it shot you. No, no. Oh dang.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

No, no, and the the other team didn't want to mess around. They were tired of this going on, so they purposely took the robot to hit her door to agitate her. She went out to the back window and fired wildly, and a sniper ended the scenario.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Wow. Oh my gosh. I mean, you get home at the end of the day, and like, what do you how do you how do you reconcile all of that?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Well, I had a three-hour drive, so I had plenty of time to talk it over with the wife.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

But I mean, there's times like that. I was just mentioning to someone else, we we had a time a couple of years ago where I worked all day, tried to go to sleep, and then we're getting called out that there was a man who had paid $15,000 to a driver to take him from the West Coast to this address in Washington, D.C. And the driver, you know, put it in his GPS, but later looked it up online, and it was the Israeli embassy. And the man was acting odd, carried a backpack on his front all the time, never let it go. The driver said he thought he was Persian, and his instructions were I need to be there by October 7th. And that would have been the one-year anniversary of the Hamas invasion into Israel. And so we're like, holy crap, this guy is going to bomb the Israeli embassy, and he's got a bomb with him. And he stayed the night at a hotel in our area, bomb dog went around it, hit multiple times for explosives. And I left at midnight to work all night so that we would arrest him in the morning. And I told my wife when we when I left, I said, this is gonna make the news one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Which was like, hey, FBI takes down terrorists or seven FBI agents killed with bomb.

unknown 37:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

So okay, now I gotta I gotta know a little bit about your wife. Let's let's let's ask a little bit, Becky. Um how did Becky handle all of this? Like you're leaving for the day, like every day you left was how how did that how did that work out for you guys? Like, was there always a threat that you you you something could happen to you pretty good?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

There was there's always a yeah, there was always a threat. We didn't know if people would oppose us violently, and usually they didn't because we were well prepared and out that we outnumbered them. But early on, when I'm in Chicago, Becky's texting, hey, let me know when you're safe, and you know, how how are you? And then by the time I'm in for 20 years, I would say, Hey, we got a SWAT operation on Tuesday, and she's like, Okay, I'll put it in the calendar. And I'd say, Oh, this guy's kind of violent, actually. And she says, Oh, okay. I say, Well, he told informant that he wouldn't be taken alive, and she'd say, I told you I'd put it in the calendar. What do you want? So like after a certain time, she like okay, he comes home each day, and I have no control over it anyway. But yeah, yeah, I mean, she went from being a pastor's wife, fully involved in the ministry, to all right, now stay-at-home mom for a time, but then later established her own business that she's been running for 14 years now, marketing authors. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Okay, she went through a transition as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I think that might be part of what helped you do something else that you've uh also been doing, but I want to make sure that we kind of capture the end of your story of when did you retire from the FBI and and what what made you decide to retire?

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Well, what makes me decide to retire is they make you leave at a certain age.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

So they do.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah,

Retirement Identity Shift And New Work

SPEAKER_02 39:25

as an FBI agent. Like you can ask for extensions, but I was coming up on 57. 57 is mandatory retirement. So I just thought, hey, look, you know, let's let's move on. So I retired in January.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

And since then, taking care of the kids' house, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

So just January of this year.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Oh, okay. January 2026. Like, what did it what was it like for you? You know, you're not clocking it next day. Was there a period of just I don't know, like after math PTSD? Was there was there anything that you experienced kind of going from fully charged to like like now what do I do? That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Well, yeah, I mean, there was an identity issue when you're an agent for that long, it becomes part of who you believe yourself to be. So I I struggled with that leading up, but then also I did not properly estimate what I was in in that stress. So yeah, I mean, I was chasing the highs, having fun, bonding with my SWAT mates, and also that's tiring. So I I missed the people and I missed the action. And then uh, but I didn't realize that I was doing that in spite of this is awful, you know. So yeah, I missing the people, but also not missing waking up at 1:30 in the morning for a SWAT operation to drive across state and you know, have my have my life threatened on top of it.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Right, right. So, like what was the first thing that you did? I don't know, did you go on vacation? Did you do anything fun? Did you did you celebrate retirement? How did you do that?

SPEAKER_02 41:14

I celebrated retirement the way that I wanted to, which is on on my last day, I I was like the lead firearms instructor for our office. So I said, Hey, we're gonna have a firearms day. I'll lead you guys through it. So everybody shows up and then they come to the good, you know, the farewell luncheon. And at the farewell lunch, I go through and I roast everybody because it had become a habit that when guys retired or moved, I'm like, okay, I'm roasting you. We'd have fun doing that.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

That's awesome. Well, you you've since released something. Tell us about this next journey because as you said

Writing Irreverend And Life After Service

SPEAKER_01 41:52

in the beginning, when we first got started with interview, you have a book that came out. Did you ever think you'd write a book? How did that what was that process like? And it sounds like your wife maybe had a little bit to do with this.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

She did. Her her company, Weaving Influence Press, is the publisher. I will be the third author published. They've been marketing books for 14 years and authors. And of course, my wife comes to me and says, You should write a book. And I thought, sure. And I sat down and the book, it it's actually still in the hands of the FBI for them to check it off and say it's okay. Comes out in October.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

And it is titled Irreverend from Saving Souls to Chasing Sinners in the FBI. So it's the story of a reverend who was put in some irreverent positions along the way. We were getting dirty with people. And it's a look at what happens if you take a Baptist pastor and stick them in the FBI. And I got to be part of some remarkable things, which is no different than like every other agent. But I like how I tell my story.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

So this is a true story, it's not fiction. Oh, yeah. It's it's not like okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

You can read it and go, no way that happened, but it is, but it is true.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Okay. Wow. So October's coming out. The FBI is doing a little, you know, editing, potentially. What do you what do you miss most about, you know, just being in the FBI? What do you being a pastor? You know, your your walk and looking back. What do you miss most about either vocation per se?

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Uh I I miss the people in the FBI. They were the best. I loved worker, and they were the best people I've worked with. As far as I enjoyed in pastoring, it's tough because it's like remembering your ex and you go, Oh, she was sweet. And then you remember why you broke up. So like I look back at pastoring and I'm like, don't start thinking that that was a good thing because that almost killed you the first go-around. Um but I but I missed just like getting to speak and be creative and do studies into scripture to say, hey, here's here's an idea I think is useful for you, and I'm gonna relate it to you in a way that I think will make sense. So I miss doing the sermons.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah. And you're you're you're able to speak now on on podcasts. It sounds like you've done several and being able to share your story. Do you feel like God's stretching you into anything else, you know, this year?

SPEAKER_02 44:21

I we'll see. Uh it's it's it's that transition stage. Yeah. What I'm getting into is like, hey, here's the book. And then from the book, my wife has said, hey, she actually said you should be a speaker. And I said, right.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

I was gonna I see it. I was gonna see I see it for you for sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, I said, right, but why is somebody gonna hire me just because like, oh, like there's 274,000 retired FBI agents? And then she said, Well, write a book, and then that'll be what we use. And I said, Okay, let's do that. So we'll see, we'll see where that goes.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

One day at a time, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Until then, first like we can make our plans, but the Lord determines our steps. So yeah, that's awesome. Well, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. What would be the best way for people to touch base with you, contact you?

SPEAKER_02 45:13

You're not ready for this, Kristen. My website is preacher to breacher.com.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Oh, wow. I love it. How did you come up with that one?

SPEAKER_02 45:23

It's one that I always use through the years because I was breacher on the SWAT team. I knocked down the doors, and then obviously I was a preacher. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Okay, so is it two, like the number two, or to?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Uh T-O. Preacher to breacher.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Awesome. Well, I'll be sure to have that in the show notes as well. And are you on social media? People can follow along.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

I am. I used to just use it to troll bad guys, but if they want to see me on Instagram, I am at underscore Eric underscore Robinson. Or if you put Eric Robinson in LinkedIn and FBI, you'll probably see this face.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Awesome. Well, before we wrap up, I would love for you to just share. You know, I do this for the one, and if there's the one listening in today, would you have any other words of encouragement or wisdom that you'd want

Choose Curiosity And Closing Blessing

SPEAKER_01 46:07

to share with this one listening in today?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

I I say this through my time pastoring and then carrying over into the FBI work, there was never a time that I regretted being curious of listening and wondering what's going on with someone rather than coming to them knowing the facts, knowing for sure what's happening. So it really worked in law enforcement and it shows up when you're dealing with somebody to reserve judgment, but be curious why are they like this? What's going on for them?

SPEAKER_01 46:40

That's good. That's a huge key for somebody today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being a brave voice who's setting many free. I am going to close with our hope unlocked anchoring verse, which is may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you so much, Eric. Everybody have a blessed day, and I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye.