When Divorce Feels Like War: A Restorative Path to Peace with Amy Vanderbeek

When conflict leaves you bracing for the next hard conversation, there can still be a path toward peace. Mediator Amy Vanderbeek shares how her own high-conflict divorce during COVID became the doorway into restorative mediation and helping others navigate difficult transitions with greater clarity and confidence. We talk about creating space to be heard, why restorative doesn’t mean forced reconciliation, co-parenting, releasing shame, building a business in a demanding season, and learning that rest can be part of moving forward.

Amy's contact info:

Email - riverheightsrestorative@gmail.com

Phone/text - 612-440-9005

Websites - shekeepsgoing.org & www.riverheightsrestorative.com

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Transcript

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Welcome And Meet Amy

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Amy Vanderbeek to the show. I'm so excited to have her here today. We were just talking before we got started, and I know both of us have been on some similar pathways in in recent times and moving and resettling. So I'm just excited to have her here today. We met at a local event. And I just I thought, wow, I'd really love to have you on and share where you've been and what you're doing. So before we get into that, would you just share a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to do this too. I am from one side of the river, Invergrove Heights, recently, and that's where I was when I signed up for this podcast. So I grew up there. I've got family there still. My whole life has been there. And I was married, had some kids. I've got three kids of my own and recently moved now to the other side of the river. So now I'm in Whidbury and kind of starting a whole new season of life. I work a couple jobs. I am a mediator, and then I also work serving tables because how do people do it with one job anymore? Honestly. I know. Really? Right? So it's always an adventure.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yes. And that's that's that's my word for sure, is like life is such a wild adventure, right? Um,

What A Mediator Actually Does

SPEAKER_01 1:44

so you mentioned your a mediator. For those who maybe don't know what a mediator is, could you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

So people hear mediator and they kind of automatically assume, you know, lawyer, judges, legal, but it's it's much broader than that. It's not necessarily why I wanted to get into it. Mediation is, you know, being that third party to help assist people through any conflict, really. So I I've done a lot of like mother-daughter, adult mother-daughter children that are going through tough situations with their parents or divorcing parents. I mean, you can do companies, it's everywhere. Conflicts everywhere. They don't give you a handbook in school, like this is how you handle conflict. You get it in elementary school, and then it's like you should know how to do it right. But things get more complicated and there's more nuances as you get older. So I kind of come in as a third party and I sit down with them and try to work through things. And what I really like about my work is that it's not this lawyer pressure facilitative, we're gonna sit down and figure this out. I'm trained in restorative circles. So it is a practice of we're all gonna sit around a table and just talk. I'm a firm believer in like once you're heard, you can begin to heal. And a lot of times in mediation, you don't get to be heard necessarily. You're making your demands and and checking boxes, and things speed up and get fast in those situations, and then you don't end up finding what you want out of it. So I like to slow it down, we have deeper conversations, and then we kind of start unpacking why we want this or that. And usually at the end of that, they're feeling better and more comfortable with what's decided.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Wow. Yeah. So how did you how did you come into this? I mean, you don't, you know, back in high school, it's like you don't see that on the list of possible careers, right? It's usually a doctor, lawyer, dentist, you know, teacher, the the basic. So how you must have I would love to hear how you came into this because I don't think I've really met anybody that does what you do.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Sure. So

A High-Conflict Divorce Sparks Calling

SPEAKER_00 4:02

I actually was a stay-at-home mom for eight years. So prior to that, I was in banking of all things. So absolutely nothing to do with it either. But I did go through a very, very, very tough argumentative divorce that lasted like three years, and it was during COVID. So nobody knew what was going on either in the world. It was very difficult. I had to find work again. I hadn't worked in like eight years. I had three babies at home. It was wild times. But what I do remember the strongest out of all of it was like the part that made this divorce so difficult and argumentative was the forces at play legally behind us. It was just dog eat dog kind of situations. And it's like, I mean, there's gotta be a better weight. This is not healthy. It's almost like these mediation sessions that you need to go into, they really uh almost stir the pot more, if you will. Like it gets the he's just thinking about, well, what if he does this? Then you should ask for this. And it looks at the negative parts of things and stirs it into the problems. And I just thought there's got to be a better way. Right. And it was divine intervention that an person that I barely knew. It's like you meet them in real life, you hit friend requests, and then you don't really get to know them ever. But we had been Facebook friends for gosh, five years or so. And she just randomly reached out, she said, Amy, I can see you're going through a divorce. I just went through one too. I have this gal you have to meet. She taught me this new process and this new business she's doing, and I just did her training. I think you'd really, really like it. And I said, Sure, yeah, give me your phone number. So I reached out to a woman. She actually had been teaching at Crown College in mediation and mediation practices. And I reached out to her and I said, Hey, you know, I'm really interested in your program. She goes, Oh my gosh, what a blessing. I decided to gift my program for the next year as my tithe to the church. What? And I said, Are you sure? Like, is this a scam? Are you sure? She goes, No, yes, that's great. I have my first cohort going through in January. Sign up.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

And so I just have to know, like, so coming up in January, how close were you from that timeline?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I think it was like November, December, very, very close. Very close.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Like I always say, you can't make this stuff up.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

You can't make it up. I mean, and the the woman who had even thinked to reach out to me to suggest this, she didn't even know that this was going to be free. And at the time, I think at that point I was a lunch lady. Or maybe it was during COVID, so I wasn't working at all. But I mean, times were tough. Three kids. I was just trying to get back in the workforce during COVID. It was wild. So I'm like, yeah, I have no money. This is perfect.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

And I did it and I fell in love with it. And it was just the trainer had been through such similar things too in the legal system and family court, and it was heart-wrenching. And she thought the same thing like, there's gotta be a better way. And so she started developing a program that that focuses mediation on this restorative circle process, which is a much more organic way to problem solve and talk and discuss. So it really did. It was divine intervention for sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Right. And so how long was that program then?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

So the program lasted about two weeks. Um, two weeks. Two weeks, yeah. It's uh you have to get certified for the state, it's 40 hours, so it's completely doable, and then you know, you have to do some of that practice as well. I remained very close with the trainer, and she mentored me for quite some time. Um, after that, and now we work pretty closely together. I I do her family court mediations, she does a lot of family mediation, so we're able to kind of refer to each other too.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Wow. Okay, so this and how long ago was this that you did this? Three years already. Three years ago. Wow. Okay. So mediation, you know, 10 years ago, would you ever thought that you would be doing something like this? Like I always think of, you know, sometimes there's gifts that are actually kind of buried in us that kind of aren't like unearthed until we walk through something that's usually kind of hard, right? Yes, do you feel like this is something you would have been like, oh no, I will never do that? And now you're like looking at it going, oh yeah, this has always been a gift. Tell us kind of more about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

A little bit of both, I would say. I 100% believe I had to go through a series of things in order to get me to this place. I've always had like an entrepreneurial spirit. So I've done the MLMs, I used to teach education at St. Paul College, just doing what is that called? The community ad stuff. So I used to, I was on their team doing community ad. So teaching was always fun for me and and selling and connecting, and you know, those things were starting to be built up. And over time, I met people that had like this was the expertise that they had, and this was theirs. And like I said, I was doing banking too for 10 years before that, and so it was all these little things that were totally unrelated to each other, right? But then when I began my practice, my mediation practice, I was like, oh my gosh, it was like it all came together. Right. It did, it was wild how easily and effortlessly it was all falling together, and so the flip side of that was I was never gonna do divorces, like mine was terrible, I don't want to go there again. I felt like I I'd probably be biased because I have so much bitterness in my heart from it. But God kept putting these divorce situations in my lap. He's like, No, you're not going anywhere, they would just come to you and do this, yeah. And I'm not one to say no to helping people easily. Yeah, and then I just started realizing like this, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Wow, and it all just felt right and falling into place, and I have the experiences now that I can say, hey, this is what they're looking for, and I have lots of contacts in financial and real estate. Wow, I had to go on county support for a long time when I first started, so I can help refer to that too. I'm familiar with county services, yeah. It's been a miracle in itself, watching it kind of bloom.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yes. Would you would you mind sharing, you know, maybe something you you didn't necessarily want to work in kind of like helping people with divorce, right? Because right? But would you share maybe a testimonial, obviously, you know, not disclosing any names, if you know, if if you'd be willing to just share kind of the flip side of your yes. So you gave a yes to something that you didn't necessarily want to do, but then you got to see the you know the the fruit of your yes through helping, you know, somebody.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I stumble on my words because I'm like, oh, does that mean I have to talk myself up? Because I'm never really good at that either.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yes, you do. I mean it's God, it's God literally working through you, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

And I do get to see so much of that, and I that's kind of just private little eggs that I keep without boasting about, but I'll take the opportunity. Yeah, um, I hear a lot from people how much calmer that they feel. Like being able to not necessarily talk to them on what they have to do, but walk with them through a lot of these things is it's been life-changing to watch other people's lives be changed by that. That whole I call it an industry. I hate using that term, but divorce has become an industry. And so uh people kind of come into it having to feel defensive or shop around or very, very scared on top of all of those background details that they're already stressed about that's happening privately in their family. And so the very first thing I say to them is okay, we're gonna slow down. I like to say, like, it took you, let's say, 10 years of marriage to get to the point to say that you're done. It's not gonna happen overnight. Let's slow down and I'm gonna walk through this with you. And so I often hear like I feel calmer, um, it was very informative, and I didn't feel pressured. And that's how it should be. They're going through a life crisis already. Uh I don't want to make it worse. I want to take what I've had to go through and learn and apply it for you. So it it's a calming, more peaceful experience doing it this restorative way too.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah, and I love just even that word. Like you wouldn't necessarily put restorative and divorce together, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

It's a misconception. A lot of people might scroll past my name because they're like, I'm not trying to restore anything, but it's it's more restoring your peace and confidence that you're just moving into a new chapter. This isn't the end, it's just a new chapter. You just gotta get through it.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yes. So this has been three years you've been doing this. How like, how do you get the word out about what you're doing then? Just for people who might be hearing this and they're like, how would I potentially work with her? Like, how does she even share about this? Because I I do have people who are, you know, business owners, entrepreneurs, and I've had a lot of people ask me, like, how do you get the word out about what you're doing in this day and age? So it's kind of a multi-question here.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I don't like to say social media, but people crowdsource on social media, especially about very personal things like this, because it can be anonymous. Um, and so for me, I have found a lot of people on social media trying to crowdsource, asking for opinions and questions. And I jump in and I'm like, listen, I'm not trying to sell you on something, but I know I can help. And so if I can help in that moment, I will say, hey, this is what you need to do. If you want to talk more, reach out. And I never I make sure that it's a good fit. I'm very, very honest. So I'm not a like, hey, I'm gonna take your money and we're gonna go, right? So it's I start my business, my leads and my clients the same way that kind of I stumbled into it myself. I kind of show them a bit of what I've done. I give them the backstory. Listen, three years, COVID, it was rough. What can I do for you? You tell me how can I service you? Like, what can I answer for you? And if this is a good fit, we'll just move to the next step and we'll see what else I can do. And that's that's been helpful. I don't, everybody, it's a it's a very like referral, referral, past your referrals, but I have found particularly with like divorces or family situations that referrals are very, very difficult to come by because a lot of times, especially in the beginning of these situations, the shame that also sits very quietly in the back of their souls, and so they're not telling people, Hey, I just had a divorce, let me check her out. She's great. It's hard to get through for themselves. So I just try to be there. I try to keep my ears and my eyes open if I see something that hey, God put me through this, it's gotta be for a reason, and maybe I can share it with you. And it just kind of has come organically that way.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, okay, that's good.

Finding Clients And Working Virtually

SPEAKER_01 16:24

So if somebody like they're hearing this right now and maybe they don't have time to listen to the end of the podcast, like how could somebody get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Sure, I am on all the socials. I also have my website riverheightsrestorative.com. Um kind of yeah, reach out however.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Okay. And do you typically do like kind of a call with to kind of hear what's going on first?

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah. Yep. Um, whatever is convenient. I'd I'd rather show up like a friend than a like a business. So you know, if you if you don't want to call and you want to text, if you want to email.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Okay. Now, do you work with people just locally or do you work with can you work with people virtually as well?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

I do work virtually. A lot of people like to do virtual virtual sessions. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So even like out of state from we're here in Minnesota, if you guys are listening and both of us are here in Minnesota, but you could do outside of Minnesota too.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Could I could because I'm not a lawyer, that's actually a blessing in disguise, if you will. Like I can't legally give you legal advice. So I can't tell you what your state is going to need. But but you know, like discussion and conflict, that's universal. That's anywhere. And we're all human, so we're all tackling it the same way. So I can I've helped co-parents. I think they were in Vermont, and they were having difficulty discussing things with each other in their co-parenting everyday, day-to-day life. And so they kind of took me into the fold to be the buffer for that. And that was out of state. So it's universal, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

How like like with them, for example, how long would you maybe kind of be that that go-between? Is it a long relationship? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Just for those who are kind of like, hmm, yeah, might be like it's really as long as you need, and that's kind of how I do my mediation sessions too. Like, I'll give you homework. You don't have to sit in front of me the whole time. But if you need me, I'm here. And then it's as long as you need me for. There's no set time limit. And as soon as you start feeling comfortable, like, oh, we can take it from here, that's awesome. Then I did my job, essentially. Like we want you to communicate. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Well, this is like so it's I'm just here. It's like such a special role that you get to take on with these families. And if somebody is listening in and listening in and they're like, wow, this sounds like something I might want to even do. Is that is that something that you know your mentor is still training people up in, or are you training people up in it now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

What does that look like? She stepped a little bit away from like the family court stuff, but she does focus on the restorative practice of mediation. So she is. Um her name is Lisa Welter. I mean, you can look her up. She does Catalasso Group and she keeps it within her family. She's kind of gone through this now, and she went through her own stuff. So now her daughter's kind of in the business with her, and her brother is. It's it's beautiful what she has going on. So she is a wealth of information and support as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

It's so amazing. And and the fact that you have been able to get the support, not only to like learn kind of how to do this, but also get the support when you needed it most as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah. Yep. Yes. And I think that's what we all look for, but don't know necessarily. I feel like we're in a space now where you're not getting those kind of connections with strangers, right? We have our pods, we have our groups, and so it's it almost becomes hive thinking in some respect because you're not seeing these other ideas. And so it is such a blessing to share, like to reach out to strangers, to maybe get a little uncomfortable and share more of yourself or ask more about them and break out of those comfort zones because you learn so much and you can share so much.

Choosing Discomfort And Being Real

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yes, that's so good. And you know, we're in Minnesota, and Minnesota is known for being Minnesota nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

I think Minnesota nice is also just trying to stay comfortable. I am I am like a really, really, really big proponent proponent of getting uncomfortable. Yeah, and I was not born that way. It's just been a series of being put in uncomfortable situations and you're gonna find your way out of it. And so through that, I've learned to lean into it, and I say that as much as I can to people like get uncomfortable. Yeah, you could bomb, but you could trip and fall when you're not trying either. So get uncomfortable. It's okay, you're not stepping on toes is not the end of the world either. I mean, apologies exist for a reason. Learning exists in that manner too. So get uncomfortable, just jump in.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And I mean, would you say too, like getting uncomfortable? Have you found that it takes kind of some like breaking for a little while, like breaking the ice in essence, for people to get even vulnerable with you? Or do you find that they're pretty quick to get vulnerable?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I think that they are pretty quick to be vulnerable, but I also am an open book myself. I I find myself being vulnerable often. And I guess that's maybe the icebreaker for them. True.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah. Yeah. And I think we all have a story. Exactly. Do you find how do you like how do you kind of I I feel like Vic Balance is kind of just this thing that isn't really a thing? Like I call it juggling, but how do you kind of juggle stewarding like their story and your like your story without maybe giving away too much? Because I'm an open book too, and I know that there's wisdom in kind of holding some of your cards tightly. Do you have a hard time with that sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

I do, but being in the practice that I'm in, I'm not necessarily able to give all of those cards because though they're individual situations, it wouldn't necessarily matter. And so I it's kind of fun getting to shop within myself, like, ooh, this nuggets for them here, you know, like this is what they're going through. So I can focus on that. And I really thought it was going to be a hindrance to me, having come from that background and then being in front of people experiencing it. I thought, like, I'm I need to remain unbiased. Am I going to be able to do this? But I've really learned to read situations and read people. And you know, my marriage and the the divorce that happened after really taught me that too. Like slow down, look at things as they are. And so it actually has taught me to listen and be unbiased and meet them where they're at, not necessarily where I'm from.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

That's so good. Yeah. And I imagine that that kind of even crosses over, not just in this mediation space, but just to people in general. Have you noticed like a change in you, even?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Very much more trained up. Very much. It is it is very like a maturing thing too, right? Because you're quick to jump on something in your 20s, and then you start to learn to slow down as well. But then you have those life experiences that teach you to look for those nuances or protect yourself in ways that you were willing to risk before. And so that I mean, that comes through in my work and you know with my kids, especially now.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

How old are your kids now? Are they like under 10?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

13, 12, and 8.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Okay. So at least another month. Yeah, they're young. Okay. So I was curious as an entrepreneur myself, and I'm sure many who are listening in today as entrepreneurs. Um

Entrepreneurship, Faith, And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 25:19

I like to say being an entrepreneur is like the biggest faith journey ever. Because, you know, let's just, you know, for you, you know, as a single mama with three kids, you did banking, right? So that's safer, right? Right. Like for me, I was in corporate. It was it was safer to get your paycheck every two weeks. You maybe get really good benefits, depending on where you're at, right? So in this last three years journey as an entrepreneur, would you mind just sharing maybe some of the roller coaster ride you've been? Yeah. So just bring hope to some who are on the path and they know that, like for myself, I know I'm not called to go back to a job and I'm on the path, and I know others are on the path. And sometimes there's this temptation to give up.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Because maybe you're not seeing what you think you're supposed to see.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Right. And sometimes that that safer job looks like greener grass on the other side, right? Like then I might not have to work so hard and I can just collect my paycheck.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

But let's remember we weren't happy there. Like that is, and it's very it gets forgotten about when you're in those moments of struggle. But really, like it is a journey. It is a roller coaster for sure. In the beginning, I I so my primary job once I left the marriage and COVID finally was over, was waitressing. And I I started with a family-owned restaurant that was just opening in my town. So, again, talk about a God whisper. Again, it just fell in my lap. Thank God. Yeah. But that's kind of been my foundation. And luckily that brings me a lot of flexibility. So then when I started this journey with this new job, I knew that I had the flexibility, but I was gonna have to grind really, really, really hard. I mean, still parenting in there too. Which I I like to hustle and be busy, so it was okay. And I started to see some of the fruits of my labor, but life hits you with something. I have a best friend that always tells me, like, when you feel like you're up against a lot, that that's the devil pulling you away. Like you are being tested. So are you going to have that faith and keep grinding or are you gonna fall victim? And so every time I hit a brick wall or a big hurdle, I'm like, mm-mm, not today, Satan. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. So it's been a journey. There was a a year last year where I had three jobs because I wasn't feeling confident in my practice.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

And it just wasn't making the bills, cost of living is going up. I was working every day, all day, three kids, three jobs, and I was depleted.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Absolutely depleted. And I had to step away. And it meant financial risk, but I had to have faith in my own ability and like what my plan was for me. Like and remind myself, everything has fallen into place thus far. Why am I putting so much pressure on myself? Right. Because there's so much in play that I'm not in control of, and I'm gonna be okay. Yeah, like God is for us, he who could be against us, kind of deal.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And as soon as I walked away from that third job, I did find my practice start coming back up again. So you I mean, it's just faith. You gotta have a lot of faith.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yes, yes. Wow. I I I really want listeners to catch that. Like, kind of you're you're doing the grind, and God's like, what did you feel like he was saying? Did you did you sense him being like, lay this down, girl, lay it down, lay it down?

SPEAKER_00 29:02

And you're like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, yes, and it it's those quiet voices that are going through your head, right? And you have the ones that I've learned to downplay, but like that anxiety, like you have to do this. And there I people don't see the background hustle either when you are an entrepreneur, they see like this, or they see your ads that you put out, but they don't know how much time and effort go into the background, right? So I was hearing, I was hearing, well, you could do more, like, don't you think you should get a different job? Or I would feel like people thought I was lazy if I took an afternoon off to go kayaking. Like, there was a lot of pressure to just more, more, and more, and more, more. And like again, my best friend's reminding me, they don't see the background hustle. You are always hustling, and so it's really a matter of learning to quiet that anxiety. And there's this other voice that's telling you, like, you're not doing this alone. Like, you can lay some of this down, you're gonna be taken care of, and we'll figure it out together one step at a time, and it and it's truly what happens.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

It's amazing. I love that. I love that for you. Like you you've been able to rest. Like, do you feel have you lost kind of that that voice of like you can't go kayaking? How dare you rest! How dare you rest, girls?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

No, no, I have not. It's a practice, it is. I will never say that I'll ever master that. It is a it's a practice or a devotion to making sure you're not not today, Satan. Yeah, so you can't lose your guard on that, but it's always gonna be, you know, that background chatter, the critic that's there. You just have to learn to listen to it when it applies, and that discernment of does it apply right now? What have I been doing? Like, I can take a rest day, it's my time.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yes. So do you do rest days now?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yes, yes, I do. Even through this movie.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

What does that look like for you? Because some people might hear rest, like, oh, I'm I can't take naps. You know, they just think rest is naps and sleeping, right? Which is what I've discovered in in talking to a lot of people. So, what does that look like for you specifically?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

For me, it's woods, it's woods and water. I like to get out on my kayak, which I am in dire need of right now. I'm camping, being in the woods, quiet. Yeah, even even like a in my kitchen with music on, with my phone turned off, baking cookies, like just whatever recharges me in those smaller moments. It doesn't have to be a vacation or yes, something like big, a spaid, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Right. Yeah, you can do like you know, I always ask women like how will you rest, right? How how will you rest? Because it's gonna look different for everybody. And I do, I'm actually going to a prayer cabin coming up here this coming weekend, and I feel I just feel like there's this draw for me to have like solitary confinement. It's funny to say it like that, but it's like, no, I actually like need solitude. I need to get away from the noise. Yes, going, you know, like you said, going out to the water or to the woods. It doesn't have to be going to a prayer cabin. It doesn't have to be going out in a cabin for a couple days, but you can go in your kitchen, like she said. You can go in your backyard, you can go anywhere, you can really do anything, right? Even for five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Wouldn't you say? Like it just recharges you.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yes, and sometimes you need to set a timer. Sometimes it's a midday break, and you're gonna give yourself five minutes, set a timer on your phone, go out and smell the flowers, just go for a walk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Yeah, I love that. I feel like you know, our world is so yeah, like hustle, like do all the things, keep and I I do say keep going all the time, yes, but not to a point where you're keep going and you're burning out, because that has been something that I'm seeing a lot of people just going way too hard, way too long, way too fast, and they burn out. And when you burn out, you can't stay ignited to do what God's called you to do.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yes, you have so much love, less of yourself to offer. And it's really compassion towards yourself, like you really need to take care of yourself so that you can take care of others. It's like that earline thing, right? But the air on yourself first, and everything falls together after that. You start to feel more confident, you can give more to others, others see the best side of you, but unless you're missing that time taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I did want to ask one more question. Through through your divorce and through like everything that you've walked through, you know, over the

Support, Shame, And Better Listening

SPEAKER_01 33:55

last, you know, six, seven years, did you have a lot of people that were supporting you, or did you find yourself kind of bumping up against that a little bit? Was it more support or maybe not as much support as you would have expected?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

It wasn't the support that I needed. Um, and and I guess that's probably why I do what I do now as well. There's not a lot of people that understand the ins and outs of that, and they don't necessarily know how to help. They want to help, but sometimes that's not even the help you need. Um, and that burnout, I mean, there was a lot of burnout too, but you also have I had a judge tell me once that I was just a bored bitter housewife that needed to get over it and get a job, and did not approve of the fact that I was waitressing. And so that was shameful for me to do that. I couldn't do that forever. And that that was just implanted in my heart like a toxin that dripped out of me for years and years and years. And so it's little comments like that, which in the end did he mean it the way that he meant it? Probably not. I mean, maybe it was the the fatherly, let's start a fire in her, like she can't live this way forever, or you know, the I'm so I would get the I'm so sorry that you're going through this. And then I was like, oh, me too. And it's almost like, yeah, this is terrible. And so everything I think was with a genuine heart, but it wasn't conducive to the healing and the changes that I needed. And so, and there were people around me that were not the best for me in those situations. So I'd say two things for that. One is to surround yourself with the people that do, you know, bring out the best in you, that they understand what you're going through, or or they're not trying to compete or belittle what you may be doing. But also, for instance, when people say, I'm so sorry, you went through that now. I have grown and learned and healed enough to say I'm not. It's okay that you're not sorry. It doesn't have to be a sad or bad thing going through certain bad things in life, right? So I I would say, like, really listen to the people that are going through things. Like maybe they don't need the sympathy. Sometimes it's just quiet, sometimes it's not finding this lover lining, and sometimes it is. It's so different for everyone. And like for me, it was this was an amazing experience for me to take these things and learn from them and then gift them to somebody else. It's yes, could be the best bad thing that ever happened. You don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

And so really a word right there. This is the best bad thing that ever happened, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Right. You have to find like why did this happen? How can I transform this into something godly? Yeah, and good.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Like even though it may not look good. Yeah, I was gonna ask you, like, what would you say to somebody, like who, you know, maybe a friend or family member who hasn't walked through what you'd walk through before and and really don't know what to say? But like you said, it's not always saying something. Yeah, it's just listening, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Just listening and maybe asking. Yeah, asking what yeah, and or what do you need, or let them talk.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Yeah, like what does Amy need?

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I love asking that question. Like, what do you need? And it's a what do you need? And I don't think people actually think about it very often, especially people who like are ones because I can see in you, you love to help others, right? I think when we're helping others, we forget to ask ourselves, like, what do you like what do I need today? Yeah, like right. Do you ask yourself that question often? Ah, yeah, practice. You've learned too. Am I excelling at it? Probably not. Well, it's a it's a process, right? I feel like we're all in process, so no shame in that either. Yeah, right. I've learned too. I'm like, oh, I need to like stop and like assess where where are you at today, Kristen? It's not just about everybody else. Right. Yes. So good. Well, you are a joy, and I'm so thankful for like the work that you get to do. What like if you're just gonna say, like, what is your most like every day when you get to do this, you walk away and you're like, this is why I'm doing this. Like, what is your deep, deep why? What would you say?

SPEAKER_00 38:48

I find so much joy and healing for myself when I can be a steward or a friend helping them through something. And so that that's my why.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

It's just taking some of that burden because if there's anything that I can teach my kids, is you are not carrying your burden alone, and you yourself are not a burden.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

So that brings me a lot of joy.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Oh, yeah, I can I can feel it. It's amazing. And again, so you shared your contact information earlier in the episode. Would you mind just sharing it again for us?

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yep. I am at riverheightsrestorative.com. And my email is riverheightsrestorative at gmail. But feel free to reach out on socials.

unknown 39:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Email, website.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Sounds good. And I'll be sure to have everything in the show notes. So if you didn't catch that, you're driving. Please don't, you know, write this down while you're driving. Thank you. So as as we're wrapping up here today, I would love for you to just share. If you could just get in mind, you know, one person who's listening in today. Do you have any other like words of encouragement or wisdom that you'd want to share with this one that's listening in today?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yes, I will leave you with the one that my friend gave me right before we got on the show because there's a reason why, right? And she

Scripture, Encouragement, And Hope

SPEAKER_00 40:07

left me, she left me with Matthew 10, 34. And she said, I've come to bring not peace but the sword, right? So whatever you're going through, it's a blessing, even when it doesn't feel like it. Because a life of discipleship is gonna have its roller coaster, and it's meant to just grow you and make you more confident and ready to take on life. So lean into it. Don't be afraid of it.

unknown 40:36

So good.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah. Take that in, everybody. You might need to rewind that a little bit. Thank you, Amy. You are a joy. I'm gonna end with hope unlocked anchoring verse. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. I just love that word. It's Romans 15, 13. So thank you for being a brave voice who's setting many free. Please reach out to Amy, and I'll be back with another episode next week. Thanks, listeners.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Thank you.